Dravida Vedas.Why there are no Vedas in Tamil?

Some time back a friend of mine called up and asked why there are no Vedas in Tamil.

The second query was what Dravida Vedas are.

I informed him the details.

Since then I have been receiving questions of the same nature( not through him or the same source).

The term Veda is from the Sanskrit root ‘Vid’ -To Know’

Anything that informs is Knowledge;whether it is correct or incorrect, Right or Wrong is another matter.

So Vedas mean knowledge.

There is a slight difference.

Knowledge that is eternal is classified as Absolute and Vedas impart this knowledge.

It is called Para Vidya as opposed to worldly knowledge(of senses) which is called Apara Vidya or transitory Knowledge.

That Knowledge which speaks of reality is Para or Absolute Knowledge.

This is what the Vedas speak of.

So any knowledge that speaks of Knowledge of this nature can be technically called Veda.

In Tamil we have Bhakti Ilaakiyam like Thevaaram,Thiruvaasagam and Naalayira Divya Prabhandam

While the first two extol Lord Siva, the latter is dedicated to Lord Vishnu.

They are named as Dravida Vedas in Agama Sastras.

In temples only Agama is followed and not Vedas.

The reason is Vedas do not teach collective/public Worship.

It is not a social phenomena.

It is intensely Personal and the worship of Fire is stressed in the Vedas.

Agama Sastra was organised by the descendants of Sage Viswamitra.

It is said that Viswamitra banished some of his sons for questioning him on his decision to impart Knowledge to a born Panchama.

Viswamitra declared thatVedas must be taught to any one with Charactrer,Discipline ans Aptitude along with dedication to Guru.

The Vedas emphasize this.

Therefore the sons were banished for not respecting the Vedas and father(Viswamitra).

Beyond Vindhya ,it was presumed to have been occupied by barbarians.

So Viswamitra banished his sons to the South of Vindyhas-Dravida-meaning South.

When his sons landed in the South, instead finding a barbaric culture they found a culture(Tamil) which was equal to Vedic Culture.

They blended the best of both.

They also noticed that idol worship was practiced.

They incorporated this as well.

The wearing of Thiru mangalyam or Thali is a Tamil Concept as well as Pancha kachcha.

Vaidika marriage is over as soon as Panikgrahanam and Sapthapathis over.

All these were compiled by Aapasthamba which we follow to day.

Later to counter the influence of Vedas Agama System was brought into being where Public worship, Building Temples etc was incorporated.

However the Vedas took notice of this and followers of Aapasthamba incorporated this in Vaidiaka system as well.

But they did not intrude into Agama Sastra.

In every temple one would have noticed, after poojas are nearing the end they shall declare ‘Dravida vedam sandarsyami’-meaning recite Dravidian Vedas.

For Saivites it is Thevaaram/Thiruvaasagam; for SriVaishnavaas it is Naalaairam .

It may of interest that no Vadika is allowed by Sastra to perform abhiseka to the Murthy unless he is qualified in Agama Sastras.

Only Gurukkal are allowed for this.

Gurukkal do not have subsects, they have only Gothrams.

Ref.

Vedas,

Agamas,

History of the Tamils by P.T.Srinivasa Iengar

5 responses to “Dravida Vedas.Why there are no Vedas in Tamil?”

Ramachandran

commented on

29 Jan 2012

Nalayira Divyaprapantham, is an edited one. In 1892, Original Nalayira Divyaprapantham was copied but with a big differnces from the first one and the original one was destroyed by the so called Jeeyars! There was a case in Madras Supreme court for a land at Tirukkurugudi. The Land beloging to a Sunadra Peruman Temple (A Siva Temple) but a scratch was made and changed as Perumal. When The English asked for a clarification they told a stroy! and brought down Siva Linga in to the temple! But before that there was a Sastha (Iyyappan Shrine) It was 1n 1904! The Kumbhbhishegam with Siva Linga was done on 1911.

Same is for Chidambaram Nataraja .

We all know that in Chidambaram there is a shrine for Govinda Raja, which was removed by Kulothunga chola, later reinstalled by Krishnappa naick of Senji in 1597. This we know.

Now The fact news in detail

There was a discourse at a meeting hall between Appayya Dikshiha and Gatikachalam Koti kanya Dhan Thathacharya in A.D..1560..with a bet that the defeated person to join the opponent’s religion and if Tatacharya wins he will install the Govinda Raja in Chidambaram, and if Appaya Dikshiha wins , Thatha charya will join Saivaism and will not install the Govinda Raja idol. In which Thathacharya applied some third degree method and fraudulent tactics applied on Appaya Dikshiha, and other Chidambaram Dishidar and Thathacharya declared won and as per the agreement, Dikshiha should convert to Vaishanavism and permit the Vaishnavaites to install the Govindha raja idol in Chidambaram Temple.(Where Rama Raya was ruling)

But Dikshiha didn’t accept the foul play and left for Vijaya Nagara along with his 500 Sishyas. But Thathacharya didn’t permit Dikshiha to meet the king.

Dishidar has sent a letter thro his pupil to the king and mentioned Thathacharya is preventing him from meeting the king, and the King sent full honors to Dishidar and received him in the court with Royal salute.

Here Dishidar explained the king how he was cheated/ duped by Thathachaya.

King at once asked both Dikshiha and Thathacharya to take an argument, and the looser will embarrass the winner’s caste.

Both agreed and in this Dishidar declared won and as per the word Thathacharya should Join Saivasim.

But at this stage the King took back foot and asked Dishidar to apologies Thathacharya and permit him to stay with Vaishavim.

The Erection of a Sannadhi for Govindaraja Perumal was stopped and the shrine created for Him was destroyed.

The king along with his Gurus Dishidar and Thathacharya went to Srirangam, and here as per the suggestion from Dishidar, the Raya appointed Sadasivan as next king for South.

Dishidar left for Vrinchipuram and Thathacharya left for Kanchipuram .

After this the vaishavaites in Chidambaram took a vow that they will install the Govinda raja idol in Chidambaram Nataraja temple and seek the assistance from Krishnappa Nacikan, who is famous for lifting his Gun and who constructed the Ramar temple at Senji.

So Krishnappa Naick in 1598 as per the advice from his Vaishanavites took revenge on back door method .and were ready to face any sin due to this.

The Dishidars of Chidambharam refused admission for that Perumal, and threatened to kill them selves by jumping from the Gopuram if the Perumal re enters in that shrine. But Krishnappa Nayak was firm on his decision and constructed the room and brought in the statue.
At that time all the Dishidars climbed on the Gopuram and jumped and committed suicide. The number is 20.

Then Krishnappa Nayak ordered his gun men to shoot the gang of Dishidars in which 2 died along with a woman .

All the vaishanavites were just watching this and never came forward to stop that.

During 1608 A.D. to 1678 for 70/80 years the idol of Nataraja from Chidambharam was shifted to Tiruvāllur.(Kadappa Navab period) and reinstalled in 1680 when Satrapathis’ father Bonsle was visiting South India . Tanjore king Bonsle gifted 12,000 pons to the Gold!

But in the book it is mentioned that Saka 1600 which is a mistake. If Saka 1600 then it will be AD 1678 and the period of Bonsle, the father of Sivaji was 1678A.D.

So the Saka print is a mistake.

So the Dikshidars must have removed the idol of Sabhapathy from Chidambaram and kept in Trivālore for Eighty years and reinstated in A.D.1678!
Ref:
Henry Heras, Aravidu Dynasty of Vijaya nagara, Vol I B.G.Paul & Co., Madras 1927 p-544
T.V.Mahalingam, Ed., Mackenzie Manuscripts Vol- II, University of Madras 1976 pp-553-554

Henry Heras, Aravidu Dynasty of Vijaya nagara, Vol I B.G.Paul & Co., Madras 1927 pp-553-554
T.V.Mahalingam, Ed., Mackenzie Manuscripts Vol- II, University of Madras 1976 p-3

Lakshmi Narasimhan Venkatapathy

commented on

19 Jul 2011

Not a clear post.

Veda is not knowledge, it is WISDOM (a huge difference exists amongst the terms knowledge and wisdom).

The status of “Veda” has been given only to Naalayira Divya Prabhandam amongst the Srivaishnava society due to which they are recited by the Srivaishnavas in front of the Perumal during procession, while the Sanskrit Veda is recited at the back. The Saivite versions don’t have this extalled status. Not only that, they are not recited (particularly brahmins don’t bother to recite) in temples or processions. Also, despite the literary greatness they have not been taken up for philosophical discussions (tatva vadams) whereas Naalayira Divya Prabhandam has a long history of being a point of clarity even for sanskrit vedas and hence bhashyams exist for the Naalayira Divya Prabhangam.

Nammazhwar the head of azhwars is hailed as “Dravida Veda Saagaram” (sahasra shaaka upanishad samaagamam, namaamyaham dravida veda saagaram).

Regarding agamas and vedas – agamas only preach how to perform the ritual, the mantras are all indeed from “Vedas”. Vedas form the foundation for anything in the Hindu culture. Agamas prescribe the temple design, the idolatory principle, the concept of installing the supreme into the idols using veda mantras.

Thaali or Thirumangalyam is a recent invention even in Tamil culture – it did not exist in ancient times. Upto panigrahanam only the marriages used to exist. Well, the language Tamil itself was revealed by Sage Ahastiyar and then developed and shaped up by his disciple (the so called Tholkappiyar). So, Tamil was indeed a language of the Hindu culture as was Sanskrit.

Would be open for comments as well as corrections. Would like to have further discussions in an unbiased fashion for the sake of knowledge development and clarity. Not interested in any sectarian clashes.

ramanan50

commented on

19 Jul 2011

Thank you for your clear and relevant comments.
The etymological meaning of ‘vid’ is Knowledge.
‘The Vedas (Sanskrit वेद véda, “knowledge”) are a large body of texts originating in ancient India. Composed in Vedic Sanskrit, the texts constitute the oldest layer of Sanskrit literature and the oldest scriptures of Hinduism.[1][2]’ Wikipedia.
Gnana denotes wisdom.
As I have indicated in my unclear post ‘Para Vidya’ indicates Higher knowledge and this is what is indicated by the Acharyas.
Awareness (loose word in English) is Knowledge while Gnana is Clear,Correct, Right and Higher Knowledge.
Lord Hayagriva is worshiped as ‘Gnanandamayam Devam’ and not as ‘Vidyamayam Devam.
Gnana is Realized while knowledge is acquired.One acquires Vedic Knowledge to gain Gnana..
Lord Krishna describes Vedic Scholars as Pandita while he addresses Sadhakas as Gnanis.
For clear exposition of Gnana’Sreyo hi Gnanamabyaso…’ Gita-Bhakti Yoga-Chapter 12 Sloka 12.
Enough of tautology.
As to the status of Thevaaram , your statement is absolutely true.
This is probably due to the perception that Thevaaram was being recited by a particular community,Odhuvaar and Brahmins do not follow this.
This could also be due to the fact that Worshipers of Lord Siva among Brahmins are more inclined towards Vedic Rites than followers of Agama Sampradaaya.(Gurukkal/Sivacharyas are different, they follow only Agama)
As to Agamas.I recommend you ‘History of Tamils’by P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar and’Customs and Manners of Hindu people’ by Abbe J.A.Dubois in French translated into English by Henry Beauchamp-.Both are available in Google Books.
There is no question of sectarian clash in seeking Knowledge. That is for the uninformed.
There are two great Gurus.
One imparts Knowledge by Silence-Lord Dakshinamoorthy.’Dando Damayadhamasmi…..Gnanavadamaham’Lord Krishna-The Gita Vibuthi Yoga Chapter 10-Sloka 38.
Another Great Master by Discourse Lord Krishna, Master Of Exposition.
I welcome further queries. on this, Hinduism and Srimad Bhagavad Gita.

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