Tamil,an ancient language of India explains how sound,the origin of Language is born.
This is explained in detail in the oldest Tamil Grammar text available, Tholkappiyam.
The Tolkāppiyam consists of three books each of which is divided into 9 chapters. The books are calledathikaarams. The three books are
I. Ezhuththathigaaram – Formation of words and combination of words. II. Sollathigaaram – Syntax. III. Porulathigaaram – Conveying thoughts.
Each of these have further classifications.
The purpose of this article is to explain the scientific basis on which Indian culture, languages evolved.
Tamil,as I wrote earlier,backed by evidence,dates back to between 30,000 to 100,000 years!
Runs parallel to Sanskrit.
To know more of this kindly Google Tamil+ramanan50, Sanskrit ramanan50, Tamil Sanskrit ramanan50.
Sound,the basis for language is born of Eight human organs/parts.
In Sanskrit,it is stated the basic sounds are three and they rise from three places.
Pit of the stomach, Ma
Throat, U and
Mouth,A.
These three sounds form the sacred sound OM.
Tholkappiyam delves further and goes deep.
It lists seven places from where sound is born.
Air arises,
Pit of the stomach,
Diaphragm
Larynx and pharynx
Teeth,
Lips,
Tongue,
7.Nose, and
8.Palate.
‘
வளி என்பது உலகைச் சூழ்ந்துள்ள காற்று. நாம் பேசும்போது வளி உந்தியிலிருந்து தோன்றும்.
உந்தியில் தோன்றும் வளி தலையிலும், மிடற்றிலும், நிலைகொள்ளும்.
அங்கிருந்து பாய்ந்து பல், இதழ், நாக்கு, மூக்கு, அண்ணம் ஆகியவற்றில் ஒலியைத் தோற்றுவிக்கும்.
ஆக நிலைகொண்டு பாயும் ஒலியுறுப்புகள் 8.
‘உந்தி முதலா முந்து வளி தோன்றி
:தலையினும் மிடற்றினும் நெஞ்சினும் நிலைஇ
:பல்லும் இதழும் நாவும் மூக்கும்
:அண்ணமும் உளப்பட எண் முறை நிலையான்
:உறுப்பு உற்று அமைய நெறிப்பட நாடி
:எல்லா எழுத்தும் சொல்லும் காலை
:பிறப்பின் ஆக்கம் வேறு வேறு இயல
:திறப்படத் தெரியும் காட்சியான. 1
:அவ் வழி,
:பன்னீர் உயிரும் தம் நிலை திரியா
:மிடற்றுப் பிறந்த வளியின் இசைக்கும். 2
The raising air-stream originating at the lungs, inflated by the action of diaphragm abides and reinforced at the chest, larynx and pharynx and touches the teeth, lips, tongue, nose and palate, at different places, in distinct ways and by various manner produces sound, with the eight organs, as we know. 83/1’
I received a question from Quora recently if Tamil is as old as Sanskrit,could someone post a Tamil version of Shiva Tandava Stores.
‘
This is Pasupathi sealdiscovered in Mohenjo-daro archaeological site of Indus Valley Civilization.
It has been dated to be 4050 – 4400 years old and considered to be the earliest known depiction of Sivan.
பசு=உயிரினங்கள் + பதி=தலைவன் = பசுபதி(Pasupathi)…உலகிலுள்ள எல்லா உயிரினங்களுக்கும் தலைவன் என்று பொருள்.
(another name for lord shiva, means the lord of all animals of the universe).
I think Sanskrit songs were praising the Tamizh Lord :p’
The question seems to have risen from the information that Sanskrit and Tamil were born from Lord Shiva.
Shiva as Cosmological Being
‘
So the antiquity of Tamil and Sanskrit go back to vast stretches of Time.
So I gave up trying to find out which is older, Tamil or Sanskrit, with the conviction that both go back to very vast stretches of Time, both quote each other.
Period.
As to the origin of Sanskrit, it is from Shiva’s Damaru, a musical instrument, adorned by Shiva.
The sound of Damaru created Sanskrit and it was compiled as Maheswara Suktha.
This was revealed to Panini and Agastya.
IT may be noted that Agastya is the father of Tamil, along with Shiva.
Panini gave Sanskrit.
As Tamil and Sanskrit seem to go way back, seem to be coexistent, the Tamil Grantha Lipi seems to be common to Sanskrit, Tamil could have been revealed by Shiva simultaneously at the time of revealing Sanskrit in the form of Maheswara Sutra.
‘The Tamil and Sanskrit Grammar are said to have been revealed simultaneously to Agasthya and Panini by Lord Shiva! Though the literary proof for this claim can be had only in the post 15th century AD period, it cannot be denied that both Tamil and Sanskrit grammar have commonality in many ways.‘
Tamil and Sanskrit date a long way back and they quote each other.
They are intricately connected.
Yet they are different in Grammar.
Both are rich in literature.
As a matter of record, it may be noted that the First Tamil Grammar was by Sage Agastya ,who ,along with Siva and Murugan are the custodians of Tamil .
The first Tamil Grammar Agathiyam by Agastya is lost.
The second Grammar work Tholkappiyam is by Tholkappiyar and it is the oldest available text in Tamil.
Tholkappiyar was a Vedic Brahmin.
He composed Tamil Grammar.
And he states,while describing the origin of words,in Tholkappiyam,that words(sounds)rise from seven places in the body and that he is not explaining this in Tholkappiyam and this information can be found in The Vedas.
(This is translated by me. Tholkappiyar mentions seven places, while Wikipedia mentions as From five places. The learned may contribute))
The tonal inflection is indicated here.
It may be of interest to note that Swara,the Tone is important in Vedic Intonation.
It also stands to reason to surmise that Tholkappiyar indicates the seven noted, Saptha Swara,as the basis.
And the word for movement,which produces Sound,is Called ‘Isai’ in Tamil.
Isai indicates Music,Sound,in agreement with.
‘எல்லா எழுத்தும் வெளிப்படக் கிளந்து
சொல்லிய பள்ளி எழுதரு வளியின்
பிறப்பொடு விடுவழி உறழ்ச்சி வாரத்து
அகத்து எழு வளி இசை அரில் தப நாடி
அளபின் கோடல் அந்தணர் மறைத்தே. 20 Tholkappiyam தொல்காப்பியம் 20
https://ta.m.wikisource.org/wiki/தொல்காப்பியம்/எழுத்ததிகாரம்/பிறப்பியல் பள்ளிகளில் வளி எழும். சொல்லிய 5 இடங்களில் எழுத்தாகப் பிறந்து வளி விடுபடும். எழுத்தானது பிறந்து, எழுந்து, விடுபடும் அளபு அந்தணர் மறையில் உள்ளது. அகத்தே தோன்றும் அதனை இங்குச் சொல்லாமல், புறத்தே வெளிப்படும் பாங்கை மட்டும் கூறியுள்ளேன்” என்று தொலகாப்பியர் குறிப்பிடுகிறார்..
The classification of society into four, based on disposition of individuals is an unique concept of Hinduism.
This is used to vilify Hinduism as practicing Caste is.
That this concept is incorrect has been explained in my articles on Caste.
The fact that Tamil is against Sanatana Dharma and Arya Invasion theory has been proved wrong.
Please read my article ‘The Fraud called Arya Invasion Theory.
There have been concerted attempts to portray that the ancient Tamil Society did not have Caste system and Tamils did not have Caste system at all and all were treated equal.
A perusal of Ancient texts like Tholkappiyam and other Sangam Literature indicate that not only were there the the four Varnasrama of the Vedic period, Brahmana , Kshatriya, Vysya and Sudra, but there were seven castes.
‘The Tamil and Sanskrit Grammar are said to have been revealed simultaneously to Agasthya and Panini by Lord Shiva! Though the literary proof for this claim can be had only in the post 15th century AD period, it cannot be denied that both Tamil and Sanskrit grammar have commonality in many ways. Yet another information that I want the readers of this mail-chain to know is that this Tamil Grammar work does say that the 4 varnas were there among the Tamil speaking people and adds 3 more categories, making it a 7- class society. The additional three are – astrologers, sages andPorunar (kshatriya vratyas). There was a separate class of astrologer called by a generic term “ARivan” – which is a Tamil equivalent of Daivajna.‘
‘ Greek Traveler and Historian Megasthanes records these seven castes in his book Indica.
The Link for the book. <a href=””>Ancient Indian History and Civilization by Surendranath Jain
‘ 1. Maruta makkal or tribes of ploughmen (ulavar) inhabiting fertile, well-
watered tracts (panai) and living in villages called ur,
2. Kuravar makkal (or hill people who are foresters, make charms, and tell
fortunes and may come out of the forest to work in the panai,
3. Mullai makkal (or pastoralists, also called ayar (cowmen), kovalar
(shepherds), and idaiyar (cowherd or shepherd),
4. Neytal makkal ( or fishing people living in large coastal villages called
pattinam or small ones called pakkam, and
5. Palai makkal or people of the dry plains called eyinar. maravar, and veIar
who are hunters of both the dry plains and the forest.’
It appears that there were four castes, then further divisions took place.
It became seven and then twelve.
There were overlapping of castes as well.
Over a period some castes merged and some emerged.
This fact emerges from a reading of ancient Tamil Literature.
I received a comment for my Post Brahmin Migration 8000 years ago, DNA Proof.
Scroll down for Video.
This is it.(in Facebook)
“Hey, I visit this page often. The one posted here is quite confusing. There is a sentence,”Tamil quotes the Vedas and they quote Tamil.”… what does this mean exactly? Does it mean Vedas are classified in Tamil language? Does these Samhitas, Upanishads etc are in Tamil not in Sanskrit. If this is true then, Vedavyasa would be knowing Tamil, then he is a Dravidian. But he is born on the banks of river Yamuna a fisher woman and Parashara, son of Vasishta. The article talks about Rama’s ancestors, who are Dravidians migrated to North; this again implies many of north Indians are Dravidians. Then this disapproves the theory of migration of Aryans to Northern Indus region….quite confusing article. If meticulously read, it confuses still more.”
Well, the mistake is mine,
Vedas
It was remiss of me not to have written a Post on the subject of Tamil and Vedas quote each other.
The same is the case with Ramayana and Mahabharata.
To clear the readers question ,
Tamil langauge does not have Vedas.
Vyasa was not born in the South.
The Aran Invasion is a Myth.Please read my Post on this
Now coming to Vedas and Tamil quoting each other.
The Vedas do not refer to Tamil language directly, but it mentions the produce of Tamil Region, Sandalwood,Elephant Tusks,Pearls,special wood being used to kindle Homa Fire.
Vedic Rishi, Viswamitra banished his son to Dravida Desa and their descendant Apasthamba ,compiled the Apasthamba Sutra, combining the best of Vedic practices and Tamil Practices.
‘Equating Dasyu with Manu is extremely significant. If Manu in this context were to represent the figurehead from whom all Arya descended, than this one statement, clearly seeks to differentiate origins of the Dasyu from the Arya. Since we know that Nahusa is a descendant of Manu and therefore the oft mentioned five tribes of Nahusa would also have descended from Manu, does this one statement then establish that the Dasyu, whoever else they may have been, were not people that belonged to the five tribes?
We have already seen above that the Dasa were a tribe and that they were “subdued” by the Arya. The question that remains to be answered is, were they one amongst the five tribes of Nahusa or distinct from the five tribes?
Verse RV 6.022.10 suggests that they were not one amongst the five tribes
RV 6.022.10 Give us confirmed prosperity, O Indra, vast and exhaustless for the foe’s subduing. Strengthen therewith the Arya’s hate and Dasa’s, and let the arms of Nahusas be mighty.
Why would the “arms” of Nahusa become “mighty” if one of its own constituents were subdued? The only plausible explanation therefore is that the Dasa tribe was not one of the five tribes.
Reaffirmation that the Dasa were a tribe (viz) may be found in Mandala II – RV 2.011.04. Indeed, the suggestion is that the Dasa were a collection of tribes.
RV 6.011.04 We who add strength to thine own splendid vigour, laying within thine arms the splendid thunder- With us mayst thou, O Indra, waxen splendid, with Surya overcome the Dasa races (viz).
Based on the evidence we have considered so far, it seems clear that the Dasa were a collection of tribes, distinct from the five tribes of Nahusa. While we can say for sure that the Dasyu were a people not part of the five tribes, whether they too were a distinct tribe or somehow related to the Dasa is not yet clear.’
Based on the present available evidence it may be stated that the Dasyu were not a part of the basic five tribes of the Rig Veda,
This could denote those who did not worship Agni, Fire, who were treated as Heretics.
This description fits the people of Dravida Desa, who did not worship Agni but Shiva.
This also confirms that the Shiva worship was in the South , they did not worship Fire,and were treated as outsiders by the Rig Veda.
But other practices of the Vedas were followed by the Dravidas, Tharpana, Yagas and Yagnyas.
Sage Agasthya who composed Rig Vedic Hymns is credited, along with Lord Shiva, as the Founder of the Tamil Language.
“When we look at the Vedic Rishis, and their mantras, associations with later Siddha and Natha traditions, and their powers in the Epics such as Ramayana and Mahabharata, we begin to see how they are much like the Nathas and Siddhas of later times also.
Agastya for example, teaches Rama the Solar-King in the Ramayana text in the science of Brahmastra (the weapon chant). These astras are found everywhere in Vedic texts, especially in the texts such as Mahabharata, where the mentors of the Aryan cousins, Kauravas and Yadavas are taught these by Drona, Bhishma and Karna.
These arte part of the Vedic martial arts systems, which are traced back to Parshurama, historically, Rama Jamadagni, the son of Vedic Rishi Jamadagni of the Bhargava (Brighu) Seer family. Interestingly, in southern regions such as Kerala, he and his Vedic martial arts traditions are still honoured.
The Rig Vedic Maruts appear to have had this science, as per their description as Seer-warriors, as also the Dhanurvidya (martial science) is described as a Vedic science in the early Upanishads, such as Brihadaranyaka.
The Vedic Gods, such as the Ashwins, the founders of Ayurveda or Vedic Medical Science, are also portrayed like Siddha or Nathas of later times, with their mystical, almost yogic powers.
One verse of the Rig Veda (VII.67.5) asks the Ashwins to assist us in battle with their powers (shaktis) and actually refers to them as Shachipatis or Lords of the Shakti or Power.
The Shakti is the yogi’s power in later Hinduism, and here seeing it appearing as a feminine term also shows it’s importance in relation to the Vedic Gods, and the siddhis (mystical yogic powers), since the Ashwins perform many feats through it.
They make cripples walk (I.117.19) and the blind to see (VIII.68.2), and put together the body of the Seer Shyava that was sliced in three (II.118.24) and restore the head of Seer Dadhyak’s with that of a horse (I.117.24), in the Rig Veda.
The Queen, Vispala is given a golden left by the Ashwins, after hers is cut off in battle (RV.I.118.8). She is then able to fight again.’
Tamil On Vedas.
அறு வகைப் பட்ட பார்ப்பனப் பக்கமும் ஐ வகை மரபின் அரசர் பக்கமும் இரு மூன்று மரபின் ஏனோர் பக்கமும் மறு இல் செய்தி மூ வகைக் காலமும் நெறியின் ஆற்றிய அறிவன் தேயமும் நால் இரு வழக்கின் தாபதப் பக்கமும் பால் அறி மரபின் பொருநர்கண்ணும் அனை நிலை வகையொடு ஆங்கு எழு வகையான் தொகை நிலைபெற்றது என்மனார் புலவர். — Tolkkappiyam 2.16
The Dweeling Place of the Brahmins in the south, Agrahara is described in the Perumpaanatupadai, a Sangam work, which is dated around 3000 years ago.
This is from Tholkaapiyam ,the earliest Tamil work, dated around 3000-5000 Years back.
This could be older.
This poem describes the Brahmin presence in Tamil Nadu, then Dravida Desa.
Tamil Grammar assigns Gods for each of the five landmass, Kurinji, Marutham,Mullai, Neydhal and Palai.
Vedic Gods in Tholkaapiyam.
I shall be writing on how Ramayana , Mahabharata quote Tamil and how Tamils quote them.
I have often wondered who organized the Marriage System (Monogamy) in India.
Though marriage is considered to be sacred in Hinduism and has elaborate Rituals to solemnize and conduct marriages, I have not been able to find any definite information on who organized this system of marriage.
Hindu Marriage ceremony.
I could not find the origin of marriage details from the Puranas, Vedas or Ithihasas.
All these texts glorify and explain the rituals connected with Marriage.
The first written record on who organized marriage as a System is found in the ancient Tamil Grammar Book, Tholkappiyam, written by Tholkappiar (between 3rd century BCE and the 3rd century CE), a disciple of Sage Agasthya.
He states that the society was being ruined by indiscriminate copulation ,involving Lies, frauds.
Hence Brahmins organized the system of marriage.
“மேலோர் மூவர்க்கும் புணர்த்த கரணம்
கீழோர்க்காகிய காலமும் உண்டே (1090)
பொய்யும் வழுவும் தோன்றிய பின்னர்
ஐயர் யாத்தனர் கரணம் என்ப (1091) Tholkappiyam.
Here there is a rider.
Marriage as a system which was in existence for the three Varnas(மேலோர் மூவர்க்கும்) is now being set for the Fourth Varna by the Brahmins.
Meaning of the text.
Marriage as a System, which was in existence for three varnas, is now set for the fourth varna by Brahmins
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