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Tag: தமிழ் சங்கம்

  • Eighty Varities Of Dravidian Tamil Among Indian Tribes

    Among the ancient languages of India, Sanskrit and Tamil are more ancient others.While Tamil is conventionally placed at 3000 back, Sanskrit @ 5000 BC,that is Rig Veda.Here Convention means ‘Western Scholars and Indian Secular/ Left Historians’.India has the dubious honour of providing to lexicon terms like Left,Secular Historians!

    Based on recent excavations in Poompuhar,Tamil Nadu,the date of Tamil is pushed back to atleast 12,000 years ago.Sanskrit goes back further. Important factor to note is that Tamil and Sanskrit run parallel and each quote the other.An ancient Tamil site in Chennai,Tamil Nadu is about a million years old and I had written on this.Such an ancient language Tamil quotes Sanskrit and in turn Tamil quotes Sanskrit again! So, it is futile to determine their dates as it goes back to lo…….ng back,which defies comprehension.When one reads History of world, Tamil and Sanatan dharma were most ancient and they have influenced world civilizations in some form or other.And all world languages trace their origins to either Tamil or Sanskrit.

    Dravidian Language Family presence among Tribes, India

    History of Tamil is mind-boggling.Atlantis ,Mayan civilization,apart from others speak of Tamil or MU civilization .And the land of Tamils , unfortunately named after an animal as Lemuria,is at least 230 Millions years old and Himalayas was not formed then.

    So it is not surprising to know that Tamil has over 80 Variations being spoken by Tribes in the world.One can find Tamil words in Cameroon!

    The Dravidian language family consists of about 80 varieties (Hammarström H. 2016 Glottolog 2.7) spoken by 220 million people across southern and central India and surrounding countries (Steever SB. 1998 In The Dravidian languages (ed. SB Steever), pp. 1–39: 1). Neither the geographical origin of the Dravidian language homeland nor its exact dispersal through time are known. The history of these languages is crucial for understanding prehistory in Eurasia, because despite their current restricted range, these languages played a significant role in influencing other language groups including Indo-Aryan (Indo-European) and Munda (Austroasiatic) speakers. Here, we report the results of a Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of cognate-coded lexical data, elicited first hand from native speakers, to investigate the subgrouping of the Dravidian language family, and provide dates for the major points of diversification. Our results indicate that the Dravidian language family is approximately 4500 years old, a finding that corresponds well with earlier linguistic and archaeological studies. The main branches of the Dravidian language family (North, Central, South I, South II) are recovered, although the placement of languages within these main branches diverges from previous classifications. We find considerable uncertainty with regard to the relationships between the main branches.# Research paper may be downloaded at the following Link.

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.171504

    In the historical past Proto-Dravidian was spoken throughout India. When the Turanians and the Aryans came to India through the Khyber and the Bolan Passes respectively, and mingled with the local population of the North, the North Indian languages of Proto-Dravidian origin changed to a great extent. As a consequence Praakrit and Paali emerged as the languages of the masses in the northern part of India. Despite the commingling of local and foreign ethnic elements, a section of Proto-Dravidians maintained their ethnic and cultural identity in some isolated areas, spoke corrupt forms of Proto-Dravidian languages and these have survived, to this day, as living examples of ancient Dravidian languages. Languages such as Kolami, Parji, Naiki, Gondi, Ku, Kuvi, Konda, Malta, Oroan, Gadba, Khurukh, and Brahui are examples of Dravidian languages prevalent in the North. Today Proto-Dravidian speakers are increasingly mingling with other linguistic groups and learning their languages. Therefore, their numerical strength is on the decline. People living in the Rajmahal mountains in Bengal and in the areas adjacent to Chota Nagpur are good examples of the intermingling. A section of people living in Baluchistan speak Brahui, which has many linguistic features similar to the Dravidian languages spoken in South India. Scholars are surprised today to note many linguistic similarities between Tamil and Brahui, especially in numerals, personal pronouns, syntax and in other linguistic features. The Indian Census report of 1911 classified Brahui as a language belonging to the Dravidian family. It was then spoken by about 170, 000 people, although this number over the years dwindled to a couple of thousands. Whatever be their numerical strength now, they are proof of the fact that the Dravidians in some age of the historical past were spread in the region between Baluchistan and Bengal and spoke the Proto-Dravidian idiom.

    North Indian Languages

    Since the Dravidians lived throughout the Indian subcontinent at some historical past, certain syntactical affinities are noticeable even today between the South and a large number of North Indian languages. […]

    The term Dravidian, which refers to the language of South India, is of a later origin. Originally it was derived from the word tamil /tamiz> . This word in course of time changed into dravida after undergoing a series of changes like tamiza, tramiza, tramiTa, trapida and travida. At one time the languages spoken in the regions of Karnataka, Kongu and Malabar were respectively known as Karunaattut-tamil, Tulunattut-tamil and Malainattut-tamil. Today however, these regional languages are classified under the blanket term “Dravidian family of languages”.

    https://indiantribalheritage.org/?p=16288

    Source: Tamil Cultural Assocation – Tamil Language
    Address : http://www.tamilculturewaterloo.org/tamillanguage.htm
    Date Visited: Sat Nov 22 2014 12:

    Of the Dravidian languages, Tamil has the greatest geographical extension and the richest and most ancient literature, which is paralleled in India only by that of Sanskrit. Its phonological and grammatical systems correspond in many points to the ancestral parent language, called Proto-Dravidian.

    Nothing definite is known about the origin of the Dravidian family. There are vague indigenous traditions about an ancient migration from the south, from a submerged continent in what is now the Indian Ocean. According to some scholars, Dravidian languages are indigenous to India. In recent years, a hypothesis has been gaining ground that posits a movement of Dravidian speakers from the northwest to the south and east of the Indian Peninsula, a movement originating possibly from as far away as Central Asia. Another theory connects the Dravidian speakers with the peoples of the Indus Valley civilization. The Dravidian languages have remained an isolated family to the present day and have defied all of the attempts to show a connection with the Indo-European tongues, Mitanni, Basque, Sumerian, or Korean. The most promising and plausible hypothesis is that of a linguistic relationship with the Uralic (Hungarian, Finnish) and Altaic (Turkish, Mongol) language groups.

    As an independent family, the Dravidian languages were first recognized in 1816 by Francis W. Ellis, a British civil servant. The actual term Dravidian was first employed by Robert A. Caldwell, who introduced the Sanskrit word dravida (which, in a 7th-century text, obviously meant Tamil) into his epoch-making A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian or South Indian Family of Languages (1856).

    Tamil is spoken by 39,400,000 people (1981 est.) in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu, by another 2,697,000 in Sri Lanka (Ceylon), by smaller numbers of people in Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Vietnam (about 1,400,000), in East and South Africa (almost 250,000), and by still smaller numbers in Guyana and on the islands of Fiji, Mauritius, Réunion, Madagascar, Trinidad, and Martinique. The earliest literary monuments of the language belong roughly to the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC. There exist a number of local dialects, the major dialect regions being the northern and eastern areas combined, the western area, the southern area (split into at least four major dialects of Madurai, Tirunelveli, Nanjiland, and Ramnad), and Sri Lanka (Ceylon). Correlated with the social position of the speaker are a number of speech forms; a major division occurs between the Brahmin and the non-Brahmin varieties. In addition, there is a sharp dichotomy between the formal language and informal speech.

    Malayalam, which is closely related to Tamil, is spoken in the Indian state of Kerala by some 21,700,000 people. Possessing an independent written script, it also has a rich modern literature. There are at least three main regional dialects (North, Central, South) of Malayalam and a number of communal dialects.

    http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/sars238/encybrit.htmlthe Nilgiris and adjacent regions, several minor tribes speak the following languages: Kota (1,400), Toda (1,145), Badaga (128,500), Irula (Irula) (6,176). The less well-known languages of a number of other tribes may yet be established as independent members of the Dravidian family (e.g., Kurumba, Paniya) http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/sars238/encybrit.html

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  • Tamil Sangam Dates 4140 to 14,000 BC

    Tamil Sangam Dates 4140 to 14,000 BC

    Dates assigned to Events,persona and literature of India are undergoing a thorough overall ,thanks to new findings in Archaeology Anthropological research,new advanced technics and simulated software of ancient events.

    The dates of the following have been pushed back and Indian Ithihasas,Ramayana and Mahabharatha have been found to be recorded History.

    Rig Veda ,by 50,000 years,

    Ramayana placed at 5114 BC,

    Mahabharatha, at 3000 BC.

    * for the anomalies of dates in Ramayana,which the Puranas say had happened about a million years ago and Mahabharatha did happen thousands of years later to Ramayana,Ramayana had taken place in Tretha Yuga and Mahabharatha during Dwapara Yuga,please check my article Rama’s Death precedes Krishna’s by 200 years?

    And many more arbitrarily assigned dates have been revised.

    Now to another ancient Culture and Language ofcIndia,Tamil.

    Tamils have a hoary past and they have been referred to in the Vedas,Puranas ,Ramayana and Mahabharatha.

    They were a powerful maritime power and references are made by Ancient Greek Historians including Periplus and Roman records the presence of Tamils in Roman Empire and the Romans had a colony of their own in Musiri,Tamil Nadu.

    The ancient grammar book available,Tholkappiyam speaks of land extending up to 7000 miles from Kanya Kumari to The South,which is somewhere near New Zealand.

    Sage Agastya,the co founder of Tamil along with Lord Shiva is found in New Zealand and Micronesia.

    Shiva, the Primary Deity of the Tamils is worshipped by the Aborigines of Australia.

    Sage Agastya’s date is confirmed by Astronomy,Star Canopus.

    Tamil records speak of Three Conclaves of Poets in Tami Land.

    These were called Tamizh Sangam..

    ‘Nakkīrar describes three “Sangams” (caṅkam) spanning thousands of years. The first Sangam (mutaṟcaṅkam)mudharchangam is described as having been held at “the Madurai which was submerged by the sea”, lasted a total of 4400 years, and had 549 members, which supposedly included some gods of the Hindu pantheon such as Siva, Kubera and Murugan. A total of 4449 poets are described as having composed songs for this Sangam. There were 89 Pandiya kings starting from Kaysina valudi to Kadungon were decedents and rulers of that period..The grammar followed in the first sangam was agattiyam. The poems composed were Paripaadal, mudunarai, mudukurugu, kalariyavirai. If credence is given to the commentary of Irayanar Ahapporul, the beginning of sangam should be placed somewhere in 9000 BC.’

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Sangams

    Silappadikaram,one of the Five Epics ,which came later to Sangam period is dated at 1 AD.

    Recent excavations of Poompuhar,which was called Kaverippoompattinam date pushes it back by 11,000 years.

    ‘The date of Poompuhar artifact was arrived at and verified by  Glenn Milne Sea Level changes.

    The place is called Poompuhar. It lies on southeast India’s Coromandel coast facing the Bay of Bengal between modern Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka. Its immediate offshore area has been the subject of marine archaeological investigations by India’s National Institute of Oceanography since the 1980’s — and numerous non-controversial finds of man-made structures dated between the third century AD and the third century BC have been made in the “inter-tidal zone” close to shore at depths down to 6 feet (approximately 2 metres).

    These finds of structures in shallow water (some so shallow that they are exposed at low tide) have been quite widely written-up in the archaeological literature. But for some reason other discoveries that the NIO has made in deeper water off Poompuhar have attracted no attention at all. Most notably these other discoveries include a second completely separate group of structures fully three miles from the Poompuhar shore in water that is more than 70 feet (23 metres) deep. The lack of interest is surprising because to anyone with even minimal knowledge of post-glacial sea-level rise their depth of submergence is – or should be – highly anomalous. Indeed according to Glenn Milne’s sea-level data the land on which these structures were built last stood above water at the end of the Ice Age more than 11,000 years ago.

    Is it a coincidence that there are ancient Tamil flood myths that speak of a great kingdom that once existed in this area called Kumari Kandam that was swallowed up by the sea? Amazingly the myths put a date of 11,600 years ago on these events — the same timeframe given by Plato for the end of Atlantis in another ocean.

    Like the cities in the Gulf of Cambay the underwater structures three miles offshore of Poompuhar were first identified by an instrument called sidescan sonar that profiles the seabed. One structure in particular was singled out for investigation and was explored by divers from India’s National Institute of Oceanography in 1991 and 1993. Although they were not at that time aware of the implications of its depth of submergence — i.e. that it is at least 11,500 years old — the 1991 study confirms that it is man-made and describes it as:

    a horse-shoe-shaped object, its height being one to two metres. A few stone blocks were found in the one-metre wide arm. The distance between the two arms in 20 metres. Whether the object is a shrine or some other man-made structure now at 23 metres [70 feet] depth remains to be examined in the next field season.

    The 1993 study refines the measurements:

    The structure of U-shape was located at a water depth of 23 metres which is about 5 kilometres off shore. The total peripheral length of the object is 85 metres while the distance between the two arms is 13 metres and the maximum height is 2 metres Divers observed growth of thick marine organism on the structure, but in some sections a few courses of masonry were noted.

    Graham Hancock is an advocate of this theory and I subscribe to this as this has more science to back it up.

    The Glenn Milne Theory of Sea Level Change places a landmass Sundaland.

    Sundaland was a cluster of islands in South consisted of Malay peninsula, Java, Sumatra, Borneo and other surrounding areas.’

    ‘So it is logical to arrive at the conclusion that the Silappadikaram Town was in existence around 11000 CE and for a rich language as Tamil to develop, from a dialect, colloquial form and then to literary ,it requires  minimum  5000 Years.

    And Tamil quotes Ithihasas ,Ramayana and Mahabharata and the Vedas.

    That should place these Ithihasas earlier .

    Hence based on this evidence available now, Tamil should be at least 16000 years old and the Sanskrit Puranas earlier.

    Please read my Post Million Year Old Tamil quotes Vedas and they quote Tamil.

    But we are assigning Tamil Sangam at 5 BC and Rig veda at 5000 BC!’

    https://ramanisblog.in/2015/03/02/poompuhar-find-sets-tamilhinduism-by-atleast-20000-years/

    Silappadikaram and its sister Epic Manimekalai speaks of the Tsunami that devoured the Tamil land.

    And this is the Third Tsunami,the earlier two having swallowed Tamil land .

    Assuming ,at the most conservative level ,that the Tsunami struck immediately before Silappadikaram period,which is unlikely as to reconstruct the Land and take the language to classical level of Silappadikaram would have required at least five thousand years,we can assign the last Tsunami at 14,000 BC.

    And taking the account of Tamil classics for the duration of each Sangam at ( there is novreason to doubt this as their version about Third Tsunami is validated,

    ‘First Sangam.-It was said to be located in Then Madurai (now part of Madurai) under the patronage of 89 Pandya kings, during this period. It is said to have lasted for 4,440 years,

    Second Sangam-The second Sangam was convened in Kapatapuram. This Sangam lasted for 3700 years and had 59 members, with 3700 poets participating. There were 59 Pandiya kings starting from Vendercceliyan to Mudattirumaran were decedents and rulers of that period. This city was also submerged in sea. Ramayana and Arthashastra of Kautalya corroborates the existence of a city named Kavatapuram.

    Third Sangam-The Third Sangam (Tamil: மூன்றாம் சங்கம், Moondram Sangam) was a historical assembly and the last of the three Tamil Sangams. Established under the aegis of 49 Pandyan kings, it ran for 1850 years, ending around the time that Christianity emerged’

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangam_period

    Third Sangam 12,250 to 14000 ( 14000-1850)

    Second Sangam 8550 to 12,250 ( 12,250-3700) and

    First Sangam.   4140 to 8550.(8750-4440).

  • Indian Tsunami Tamil Sangam Dates Astronomy Verified

    Indian Tsunami Tamil Sangam Dates Astronomy Verified

    The first literature of Tamil, Agathiyam was composed by Sage Agasthya who also composed thr Rig Vedic Hymns 166 to 190.

     

    He is credited with the formal founding of the Tamil Language, which was handed over to him by Lord Shiva and Lord Subrahmanya.

     

    Poets Conclaves were held periodically.

     

    Leuria Map.jpg
    Map of Lemuria, based on Tamil Classics

     

    There were three such Conclaves,the first one was presided over by Lord Shiva at Then Madurai.( South Madurai, the present Tail Nadu city of Madurai was called Vada Madurai, North Madurai, where the last conclave of the Poets were held)

     

    First Tamil Sangam9 First Conclave) was held at Then Madurai.

     

    After a Tsunami, KadalKol, devoured the lands, the second Tamil Sangam was held at KavataPura, which was located south of Lanka(?).

     

    It formed a part  of the sunken continent Lemuria.

     

    Please read my posts on Lemuria.

     

    ( Is Lemuria/Kumari Kandam the same as Atlantis?, Post follows.)

     

    The second Sangam area was also submerged by a Tsunami and the third conclave was held at the present Madurai, Tamil Nadu.

     

    Then we have the Tholkappiyam which follows Agathiya for Tamil works.

     

    It is the oldest surviving Literature in Tamil.

     

    To arrive at the dates of Tamil Sangams and the Tsunami(2) I am using the Astronomical Data mentioned in Sanskrit works,Puranas, Ramayana, Mahabharata and Tamil Classics, Silappadikaram and Manimekalai.

     

    Agasthya’s date has been proved to be 5000 BC.

     

    Please read my post on Agasthya Canopus validates Sanatana Dharma Tamil date.

     

    Now taking into account the period of each Tamil Sangam, I have reworked their dates from Agasthya’s date.

     

    The first conclave of Tamil poets took place during the Tamil Sangam which lasted 4400 years, and had 549 members,

     

    The second conclave lasted for 3700 years and had 59 members, with 3700 poets participating.

     

    The third Sangam lasted for 1850 years.

     

    Agastya 5000 BC

     

    First Sangam-5000 -4400= 600 BC

     

    Second Sangam-600-3700=3100 AD.

     

    * For a language to develop and to attain highly complex Grammar and Classical Literature the language should have evolved at least 1000 years earlier.

    ** These dates agree with the dates of Ramayana.

    So Tamil language should have been used at least by 4000BC

     

    Date of the Tsunamis, Kadalkol

     

    The First.

     

    Around 5000 BC

     

    The second Tsunami,

     

    Around 5 BC.

     

    This is based on the Astronomical event of Canopus being visible when Agasthya traveled to South, crossing the Vindhya mountain.

     

    This Time scale applies for the present Aeon, Kaliyuga.

     

    Citation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Sangams#Sangam_literature

     

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  • Valmiki A Siddha Fore Runner In Tamil Sangam

    Valmiki A Siddha Fore Runner In Tamil Sangam

    I have been researching into the affinity between two great Languages of India, Sanskrit and Tamil.

     

    Tamil ,recent researches indicate is about 17,000 years old and it quotes Sanskrit in its earliest works.

     

    Sanskrit in its turn quotes Tamil!

    Valmiki .jjpg
    Valmiki Maharishi

     

    Please read my post million Year old Tamil Quotes Vedas and They quote Tamil.

     

    References to  Tamil, Tamil Culture, Tamil Kings are found in the Vedas,Puranas,Ramayana and Mahabharata.

     

    Curiously no other language is referred to in these Sanskrit Texts.

     

    There are references to Valmiki in Tamil.

     

    Valmiki is referred to as Vanmiki,in Tamil the letter L and N are interchangeable under certain Grammar rules.

     

    There is a work by Valmiki called Vanmikatpathinaaru, sixteen verses of Valmiki.

     

    Valmiki is classified among the Siddhas along with Bogar, who installed the Idol of Lord Subrahmanya in Palani in Tamil Nadu .

     

    One of the  major differences between Valmiki as a Siddha and others Valmiki advocates the study of the Vedas, the Siddhas to Ignore and go beyond the Vedas.

     

    ”

    The theme in the 16 verses of the Valmiki Sixteen is different from the themes of all other works of other Siddhas. All others praise lord Shiva as the Ultimate God who blesses one with Moksha. But Valmiki differs from them. In the very first verse of Valmiki Sixteen, he says that Shiv Shakti emerged from Vishnu, the Consort of Sri / Lakshmi.

    ‘சிவசக்தி திருமாலின் ரூபமாகும்.

    வருமுருவே சிவசக்தி வடிவமாகும்‘

    This concept is radically different from the concept of other Siddhas. This is conceded by the poet Valmiki himself in subsequent verses. He mentions in the 11th verse that seeing his concept to be different, other Siddhas complained to Lord Shiva. Poet Valmiki says further, that Shiva was angry with those Siddhas only. His theme (of Vishnu being the Primary force from which Shiva- Shakthi emerged) conveyed in these poems were regarded as the key (to understand all poems of all other Siddhas.

     

    சிவசிவா பதினெண்பேர் பாடற் கெல்லாம்
    திறவுகோல் வால்மீகன் பதினாறாகும்:
    சிவம்பெத்த சித்தரேல்லா மென்னூல் பார்த்துச்
    சிவனோடே கோள் சொன்னார் சினந்தான் நாதன்:
    அவமாகிப் போகாமல் சிவனுத் தார
    அருளினால் திறந்து சொன்னேன் உலகுக்காக:
    நவமான நவக்கிரகம் தன்னுளேயே
    நாக்கு வாய் செவி மூக்கு மத்திக்கப்பால். (11)

     

    நாக்கு வாய் செவி மூக்கு மத்திக் கப்பால்
    நடுவீதி குய்ய முதல் உச்சி தொட்டுத்
    தாக்குவாய் அங்கென்ற அதிலே முட்டுத்
    தாயாரைப் பூசித்து வேதம் ஓது: (12)

     

    While the other Siddhas preached to forsake Vedas, this poet Valmiki preached that people must to chant Vedas. In addition  he says that Vedas should be pursued after worshiping Divine Mother.”

     

    Valmiki, according to Tamil, wrote three works,

    Ramayana in Sanskrit,

    Vanmikiipathinaaru, Sixteen verses of Valmiki,  and

    a Poem in Puranaanooru in Tamil.

     

    He also participated in the Tamil Sangam.

     

    He commanded so much respect for his scholarship in Tamil , that the earliest Tamil Grammar work in Tamil, Tholkaapiyam, quotes his works, along with that of Lord Shiva as Primary Tamil Education.

    Tamil was classified into Primary,Intermediary and Secondary.

     

    This is the poem.

     

    ”

    தமிழ்ச் செய்யுட் கண்ணும் இறையனாரும்,  

    அகத்தியனாரும்,  

    மார்க்கண்டேயனாரும்,

    வான்மீகனாரும்,  

    கவுதமனாரும் போலார் செய்தன தலை”

     

    Meaning.

    The primary education in Tamil must be from the works of,

     

    Lord Shiva,

    Agasthya,

    Markandeya,

    Valmiki and

    Gautama.

    Lord Shiva is presumed to have founded the Tamil language and he presided over the First Tamil Sangam, the Conclave of Tamil Scholars.

     

    Valmiki participated in it.

     

    There are two temples associated with Valmiki in Tamil Nadu.

     

    Marundheeswarar Temple, Thiruvanmiyur, Chennai, where Valmiki is worshiped.

     

    The other temple is Ettukkudi, a Murugan Sthala where Valmiki is reported to have died and his samadhi is found there.

     

    Siddhas speak of Valmiki in their works quite frequently and indicate he was also well versed in Medicine.

     

    Dates of Ramayana and Sangam.

    ”

    adding up the years of the 3 sangam periods to this last year of the last sangam at 2000 years BP, we arrive at the following years.

     

    3rd sangam started around 1850 BC.

    2nd sangam started around 5550 BC

    1st sangam started around 9990 BC.”

     

    This is in agreement with the premise that Valmiki indeed wrote in Tamil and participated in he Tail Sangam.

     

    Citation.

    http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2013/03/valmiki-of-ramayana-knew-tamil-spoken.html

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