Ramanisblog

Tag: Tamil

  • World Language Families From Indian Languages Evidence

    I received a comment on my article ‘All Indian Languages are over 5000 years old’ thus.

    ‘This Venkat Ramanan guy would be laughed at any reputed  school of linguistics in the world. The headline is very misleading… All languages of India are not 5000 years old. There are only 4 major language families of India. Indo-Aryan, Dravidian, SinoTIbetan and Austro-Asiatic. Sanskrit, the mother of all the Indo-Aryan languages is indeed 5000 years old, but it is laughable to suggest that Hindi, Punjabi, Marathi, Bengali are also 5000 years old. These languages, i.e. Hindi, Punjabi etc. all started off as local dialects of Sanskrit and over the millenia morphed into the languages that you hear today. Likewise, ancient Dravidian morphed over the 4-5000 years into what we now hear as Tamil, Telugu, Kannada etc. The Austro-Asiatic languages are represented by Ho, Munda and Santali in India ( I don’t know their antiquity, but it has got to be ancient). SinoTibetan family of languages are spoken in the North East of India and yes SinoTibetan ( Ancestor of Han Chinese, Burmese etc is indeed 5K years old). If one wants to thump their chest in some exercise in petty nationalism, so be it; but it can hardly be called “Scholarship”. ‘

    1.Unraveling the misinformaton about India, is ‘petty Nationalism’ be it’

    2.I did not present more information on the article,as I thought it would become heavy and expected my readers to check the languages’ history and Sanatana Dharma,which my readers generally do.

    Now let me on the Dravidian,Proto Dravidian,Indo Iranian,Indo Asiatic,Indo Australian group of languages.

    Before proceeding further,it must be remebered that languages evolve from Dialects.

    It is generally agreed that India had Brahmi and Prakrit as Dialects initially.

    Sanskrit ,Prakrit,Tamil Brahmi,Tamil are to be taken into account.

    Prakrit was called a colloquial language,spoken by ordinary people,while Sanskrit was spoken by Scholars and was used more for Literature and Philosophy.

    There is Sanskrit Brahmi,which is considered as older and it dates back over 5000 years,and a Dialect takes much longer to evolve.

    Now Sanskrit is dated( again deliberately) to 5000 BC.

    Even this date should push Sanskrit Brahmi by at least 2000 years before Sanskrit,that means 7000 years ago!

    2.We have Tamil Brahmi as well and as Tamil is assigned, at least,a date of 3000 BC,Tamil Brahmi must be dated 5000 BC.

    3.Kannada Brahmi is found in  rock in Karnataka and it is dated a million years ago.(please read my article on this)

    Dravidian Family/Proto Dravidian Family.

    ‘the Proto-Dravidian language is not itself attested in the historical record. Its modern conception is based solely on reconstruction. It is suggested that the language was spoken in the 4th millennium BCE, and started disintegrating into various branches around 3rd millennium BCE.   (     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Dravidian_language  )
    ‘Though some argue that the Dravidian languages may have been brought to India by migrations in the fourth or third millennium BCE

    migrations in the fourth or third millennium BCE or even earlier,the Dravidian languages cannot easily be connected to any other language, and they could well be indigenous to India.

    Epigraphically the Dravidian languages have been attested since the 2nd century BCE. Only two Dravidian languages are exclusively spoken outside India: Brahui in  Pakistan,and Dhangar,a dialect of Kurukh, in Nepal.Dravidian place names along the Arabian Sea Coast and the Dravidian grammatical influence such as clusivity in the Indo-Aryan languages, namely Marathi, Konkani, Gujarati, Marwari, and Sindhi, suggest that Dravidian languages were once spoken more widely across the Indian subcontinent. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_languages)

    Tamil heads this group.Tamil Brahmi must have been there atleast 2000 earlier to reach its full bloom.

    Note that these Dravidian languages were spoken ‘ Dravidian languages were once spoken more widely across the Indian subcontinent’ as far away in NorthWest of India.

    Tamil Brahmi script has been found on Indus Valley civilization.

    Elamite and Akkadian languages forerunner of Sumerian trace their origins to Tamil.Please check my articles on this.

    This places Tamil around 5000 years ago and its pervasive nature throughout.

    Indo Iranian Family.

    ‘The Indo-Iranian languages derive from a reconstructed common proto-language, called Proto-Indo-Iranian.

    The oldest attested Indo-Iranian languages are Vedic Sanskrit (ancient Indo-Aryan), Older and Younger Avestan and Old Persian (ancient Iranian languages). A few words from another Indo-Aryan language (see Indo-Aryan superstrate in Mitanni) are attested in documents from the ancient Mitanni kingdom in northern Mesopotamia and Syria and the Hittite kingdom in Anatolia.’

    Look at the spread of Sanskrit ,to Mesopotamia and Anatolia!

    ‘The Indo-European languages are a language family of several hundred related languages and dialects. There are about 445 living Indo-European languages, according to the estimate by Ethnologue, with over two-thirds (313) of them belonging to the Indo-Iranian branch.

    Indo-European Family traces its history to Indo Iranian and Indo Iranian to Vedic Sanskrit!

    Afroasiatic languages have their origins in Akkadian,Elamite and they are traced back to Tamil/Sanskrit.

    ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_languages  )

    Cameroonians speak Tamil even today.

    Indo Semitic Group.

    The Indo-Semitic hypothesis maintains that a genetic relationship exists between Indo-European and Semitic — that is, that the Indo-European and Semitic language families descend from a prehistoric language ancestral to them both. This theory has never been widely accepted by contemporary linguists in modern times, although historically it has had a number of supporting advocates and arguments, particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries.

    ‘According to Carleton T. Hodge (1998:318), a leading specialist of Afroasiatic, “The positing of a genetic connection between Indo-European and Semitic goes back at least as far as Richard Lepsius (1836)”.


    The arguments presented for a relationship between Indo-European and Semitic in the 19th century were commonly rejected by Indo-Europeanists, including W.D. Whitney (1875) and August Schleicher.

    The culmination of this first phase in Indo-Semitic studies was Hermann Möller’s comparative dictionary of Indo-European and Semitic, first published in Danish in 1909 (but usually cited in its German edition of 1911).

    Sino Tibetan,Indo Australian languages go back to Sanskrit/Tamil..

    So, it is not ‘Petty Nationalism’ but a statement of facts when I write on India,its History,People and its languages

  • All Languages of India 5000 Years Old, Conservative Estimate

    All Languages of India 5000 Years Old, Conservative Estimate

    The plethora of Languages in India is mind boggling.

    22 Official languages( some estimate to be 25) and 720 Dialects( some estimate 2000) !

    ( http://translation-blog.trustedtranslations.com/india-the-country-with-more-than-2000-dialects-2011-10-18.html

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent)

    The unraveling of the History of these languages is very difficult and calls for an understanding of the Cultural undercurrent running through all these languages.

    Regions may vary,languages and dialects may vary,but the ethos of Sanatana Dharma straddles them like a colossus,albeit with slight modifications as in Tamil,though the core remains the same.

    Looking through the prism of Foreign Culture,would obfuscate the study for to classify and assign them dates without taking Sanatana Dharma into account ,will result in arriving at incorrect conclusions.

    There,again, we have the myth,now debunked Theory of Aryan Invasion.

    This helped the Invaders to divide the country and enaled them to rule India.

    So, a grand design was worked out.

    Take Indian languages,without taking Sanatana Dharma into account,underlying cultural unity among these languages,refer and link these languages to countries,which are now independent of India,like Afghanistan,Iran,Iraq,forgetting the the fact that Bharatavarsha extended throughout the globe,some 5000 years ago.

    (Please read my articles on the spread and Sanatana Dharma, under ‘Hinduism’ or google the country plus Sanatana Dharma +ramanan 50.)

    So for the common man the message was that,

    There are two major Languages,Sanskrit and Tamil,

    The other languages were derived out of either of these or a mixture of two.

    This makes the job of misinformation easier.

    One,you can divide people on the basis of Language and another,you can date individual languages as you please,meaning assign them much later dates!

    What are the facts,when one takes the parameters of Sanatana Dharma,its pervasive nature throughout the world and an independent analysis of each language in conjunction with Sanatana Dharma and the history of a language based on its history and its Dialects?

    1.There ,my research over eight years on Sanatana Dharma,its presence thorughout the world civilizations,my study of Indian languages’s History, compel me to arrive at different sets of facts on Indian languages and their dates.

    2.As records stand now, Sanskrit and Tamil seem to be oldest of the languages of India.

    3.The dates od Sanskrit and Tamil stretch far back in time and it is difficult to say which one wzs earlier,for, A million year old site Athirambakkam,near Chennai,Tamil Nadu,India had an advanced Tamil civilization znd this civilization quotes Vedas.

    And Vedas refer Tamil/Tamils.

    And recent excavations of Poompuhar,Tamil Nadu dates the city 11,000 Year ago!

    Yet the Tamil is assigned a date of around,3000 BC!

    The researches into Lemuria/Kumari Kandam, the home of Tamils indicate Kumari Kandam around 200,000 years ago!

    At worst ,you can date Tamil,at 20,000 years ago.

    4.Telugu.

    Telugu is dated around  1500 BC.

    But people forget Godavari is one of the ancient rivers of India and Godavari civilization was also a cradle of civilization.

    Telugu is mentioned in Ramayana.

    And Tamil Sangam literature refers to Telugu.

    And Tamil Sangam is dated,by the western orientalists at 3000 BC.

    So even by their reckoning Telugu should be at least 3000 years old.

    In fact,based on Indian texts,it is at least 5000 years old.

    5.Kannada is said to be 2500 years old.

    Again Tamil texts refer Kannada and Ramayana refers to the area,Kishkinda,Rama’s sister was married to Rishyashrunga from Sringeri,Karnataka.

    So Kannada can be dated at least 5000 years ago.

    9.Bengali,Marathi,Gujarati, and other languages of regions around Vindhyas and beyond also date back to at least 5000 years.

    They evolved from Prakrit,Brahmi,Sanskrit,which are dated at 5000 years ago or earlier.

    The differnces among these languages is due to the fact that they descended from Brahmi,which had 11 types.

    All the regions in India are described by Valmiki in his Ramayana and Vyasa also refers them in Mahabharata.

    And all the eighteen puranas speak of all these areas and dialects.

    So, none of the Indian Languages are younger than 5000 years.

    The plethora of Languages in India is mind-boggling.

    22 Official languages (some estimate to be 25) and 720 Dialects (some estimate 2000)!

    ([http://translation-blog.trustedtranslations.com/india-the-country-with-more-than-2000-dialects-2011-10-18.html]

    [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent)]

    The unraveling of the History of these languages is very difficult and calls for an understanding of the Cultural undercurrent running through all these languages.

    Regions may vary, languages and dialects may vary, but the ethos of Sanatana Dharma straddles them like a colossus, albeit with slight modifications as in Tamil, though the core remains the same.

    Looking through the prism of Foreign Culture would obfuscate the study for to classify and assign them dates without taking Sanatana Dharma into account will result in arriving at incorrect conclusions.

    There, again, we have the myth, now debunked Theory of Aryan Invasion.

    This helped the Invaders to divide the country and enabled them to rule India.

    So, a grand design was worked out.

    Take Indian languages, without taking Sanatana Dharma into account, the underlying cultural unity among these languages, refer and link these languages to countries, which are now independent of India, like Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, forgetting the fact that Bharatavarsha extended throughout the globe, some 5000 years ago.

    (Please read my articles on the spread and Sanatana Dharma, under ‘Hinduism’ or google the country plus Sanatana Dharma +ramanan 50.)

    So for the common man, the message was that,

    There are two major Languages, Sanskrit and Tamil,

    The other languages were derived out of either of these or a mixture of two.

    This makes the job of misinformation easier.

    One, you can divide people on the basis of Language, and another, you can date individual languages as you please, meaning assign them much later dates!

    What are the facts when one takes the parameters of Sanatana Dharma, its pervasive nature throughout the world, and an independent analysis of each language in conjunction with Sanatana Dharma and the history of a language based on its history and its Dialects?

    1. There, my research over eight years on Sanatana Dharma, its presence throughout the world civilizations, my study of Indian languages’ History, compel me to arrive at different sets of facts on Indian languages and their dates.
    2. As records stand now, Sanskrit and Tamil seem to be the oldest of the languages of India.
    3. The dates of Sanskrit and Tamil stretch far back in time, and it is difficult to say which one was earlier, for, a million-year-old site Athirambakkam, near Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India had an advanced Tamil civilization and this civilization quotes Vedas.

    And Vedas refer Tamil/Tamils.

    And recent excavations of Poompuhar, Tamil Nadu, dates the city 11,000 Years ago!

    Yet Tamil is assigned a date of around 3000 BC!

    The researches into Lemuria/Kumari Kandam, the home of Tamils, indicate Kumari Kandam around 200,000 years ago!

    At worst, you can date Tamil at 20,000 years ago.

    1. Telugu.

    Telugu is dated around 1500 BC.

    But people forget Godavari is one of the ancient rivers of India, and the Godavari civilization was also a cradle of civilization.

    Telugu is mentioned in Ramayana.

    And Tamil Sangam literature refers to Telugu.

    And the Tamil Sangam is dated, by the western orientalists, at 3000 BC.

    So even by their reckoning, Telugu should be at least 3000 years old.

    In fact, based on Indian texts, it is at least 5000 years old.

    1. Kannada is said to be 2500 years old.

    Again Tamil texts refer Kannada and Ramayana refers to the area, Kishkinda, Rama’s sister was married to Rishyashrunga from Sringeri, Karnataka.

    So Kannada can be dated at least 5000 years ago.

    1. Bengali, Marathi, Gujarati, and other languages of regions around Vindhyas and beyond also date back to at least 5000 years because they evolved from Prakrit, Brahmi, Sanskrit, which are dated at 5000 years ago or earlier.

    The differences among these languages are due to the fact that they descended from Brahmi, which had 11 types.

    All the regions in India are described by Valmiki in his Ramayana, and Vyasa also refers to them in Mahabharata.

    And all the eighteen Puranas speak of all these areas and dialects.

    So, none of the Indian Languages are younger than 5000 years.

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  • 5000 Years Mummy Spoke Indian Language Otzi Mummy Voice

    A well preserved Mummy of an Iceman was found in Otzi Alps, Italian-Austrian Alps about twenty five years ago.

    File:OetzitheIceman.jpg
    Ötzi the Iceman, now housed at the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in Bolzano, Italy

    The Otzi Man reconstructed.
    Naturalistic reconstruction of Ötzi – South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology

    Scientists and Archaeologists  dated the mummy ,

    ‘ around 3,300 BCE, more precisely between 3359 and 3105 BCE, with a 66 percent chance that he died between 3239 and 3105 BCE’.

    { Consider the facts.Rama’s Empire covered the  present Italy/Austria.

    The Mitanni Empire covered what is now known as Iraq, Turkey Syria, Lebanon,Egypt and included Italy.

    They were the ancestors of these people.

    Mitanni were the ancestors of the Egyptians as well.

    “The first Mitanni king was Sutarna I (good sun). He was followed by Baratarna I (or Paratarna great sun), Parasuksatra(ruler with axe),…. Saustatar (Sauksatra, son of Suksatra, the good ruler), Artadama (abiding in cosmic law)..Tushratta (Dasaratha), and finally Matiwazza (Mativaja, whose wealth is thought) during whose lifetime the Mitanni state appears to have become a vassal to Assyria”. Subhash Kak traces the ‘arna’ syllable in the names of the kings to ‘araNi’ (अरणि) meaning ‘sun’

    https://ramanisblog.in/2015/06/12/hindu-kings-of-iraq-turkey-syria-lebanon-egypt-italy-mitanni-empire/

    Sharada Devi in Sardinia.

    the term yavana denoted an Ionian Greek”.(3) On pages 83–5 she makes mention of early Indian literature where foreigners were dubbed “yavana”, and points to an Asokan inscription where a border-people is given this appellation. In central and western India, she says, Yavana “figure prominently as donors to the Buddhist Sangha”.

    Considering these facts it is not surprising to find the name Sharada , called as Sarda in Sardinia, Italy.

    Scholars may pursue the issue.

    https://ramanisblog.in/2015/05/16/sharada-devi-in-in-sardinia-italy-greek-hindu-connection/

    Please read my other articles on Sanatana Dharma Mittani, Sumerian, Minoan, and other ancient civilizations like Mayas and Incas.

    And Immigration of world population from India.

    The sounds reproduced by the scientists of The Otzi Mummy  sound closer to Indian languages , more like a Dravidian language, when on hears the pronunciation of long sounds, AA, EE, AE”

    Taking into account the archaeological etymological  and historical eveidence one may safely say that this Otzi Mummy Find corroborates the theory that Hindus were spread throughout the world and the Religion was Sanatana Dharma.

     

    ‘Scientists hailing from Bolzano’s General Hospital, Italy, used CT scans to produce a model of the ice mummy’s mouth, throat, and vocal cords. This allowed them to create a digital reconstruction—or the “best possible approximation”—of Otzi’s voice….

    ‘ The mummy was found in September 1991 in the Ötztal Alps, hence the nickname “Ötzi”, near the Similaun mountain and Hauslabjoch on the border between Austria and Italy.He is Europe’s oldest known natural human mummy, and has offered an unprecedented view of Chalcolithic Europeans. His body and belongings are displayed in the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in Bolzano, South Tyrol, Italy….

    “We can’t say we have reconstructed Otzi’s original voice, because we miss some crucial information from the mummy,” Rolando Fustos, the study’s lead researcher, explained to Rossella Lorenzi from Discovery News.

    “But with two measurements, the length of both the vocal tract and the vocal cords, we have been able to recreate a fairly reliable approximation of the mummy’s voice. This is a starting point for further research.”

    He added: “The vocal cords are the source of the vocal sound, but the main contribution to it is given by the selective filtering accomplished by the vocal tract configuration.”

    “Of course, we don’t know what language he spoke 5,000 years ago,” said fellow researcher Francesco Avanzini. “But we should be able to recreate the timbre of his vowel sounds and, I hope, even create simulation of consonants.”

    Reconstructing those vowel sounds presented its own set of challenges. Because MRI scans would have caused Otzi damage, the team opted to use CT scans. Unfortunately, CT scans could only measure the mummy’s internal structure.

    Also adding unnecessary complications was Otzi’s position when he died.

    “We had to deal with Otzi’s position, whose arm is covering his throat,” stated Avanzini. “For our project this is the worst position you can imagine. Moreover, the hyoid bone—or tongue-bone—was party absorbed and dislocated.”

    The scientists used special software to digitally maneuver Otzi’s arm away from his throat, as well as erect his skull. This allowed them to create a model of the vocal tract’s entire physical structure.

    According to researcher Piero Cosi, the team also used mathematical models, and software that “simulates the way the vocal tract works,” to reconstruct information about the throat tissue’s composition and thickness, and the vocal cords’ density and tension.

    The combined data convinced them that the frequency of Otzi’s voice was between 100 and 150 Hz—not too different from the average modern male.

    The team presented the vocalizations at a congress—commemorating the discovery of Otzi in South Tyrol’s Otztal Alps 25 years ago—held at the European Research Academy (EURAC) Institute for Mummies and the Iceman located in Bolzano.

    “This is a new, interesting aspect on Otzi’s research that deserves to be taken into consideration for further research,” stated the EURAC Institute for Mummies and the Iceman director, Albert Zink.

    Genetic analysis

    Ötzi’s full genome has been sequenced; the report on this was published on 28 February 2012.The Y-DNA of Ötzi belongs to asubclade of G defined by the SNPs M201, P287, P15, L223 and L91 (G-L91, ISOGG G2a2b, former “G2a4”). He was not typed for any of the subclades downstreaming from G-L91. G-L91 is now mostly found in South Corsica.

    Analysis of his mitochondrial DNA showed that Ötzi belongs to the K1 subclade, but cannot be categorized into any of the three modern branches of that subclade (K1a, K1b or K1c). The new subclade has provisionally been named K1ö for Ötzi. Multiplex assay study was able to confirm that the Iceman’s mtDNA belongs to a previously unknown European mtDNA clade with a very limited distribution among modern data sets.

    By autosomal DNA, Ötzi is most closely related to southern Europeans, especially to geographically isolated populations like Corsicans and Sardinians.

    DNA analysis also showed him at high risk of atherosclerosis and lactose intolerance, with the presence of the DNA sequence of Borrelia burgdorferi, possibly making him the earliest known human with Lyme disease. A later analysis suggested the sequence may have been a different Borrelia species.

    A 2012 paper by paleoanthropologist John Hawks suggests that Ötzi had a higher degree of Neanderthal ancestry than modern Europeans.

    In October 2013, it was reported that 19 modern Tyrolean men were related to Ötzi. Scientists from the Institute of Legal Medicine at Innsbruck Medical University had analysed the DNA of over 3,700 Tyrolean male blood donors and found 19 who shared a particular genetic mutation with the 5,300-year-old man.

    Blood

    In May 2012, scientists announced the discovery that Ötzi still had intact blood cells. These are the oldest complete human blood cells ever identified. In most bodies this old, the blood cells are either shrunken or mere remnants, but Ötzi’s have the same dimensions as living red blood cells and resembled a modern-day sample.

    H. pylori analysis

    In 2016, researchers reported on a study from the extraction of twelve samples from the gastrointestinal tract of Ötzi to analyze the origins of the Helicobacter pylori in his gut.[The H. pylori strain found in his gastrointestinal tract was, surprisingly, the hpAsia2 strain, a strain today found primarily in South Asian and Central Asian populations, with extremely rare occurrences in modern European populations. The strain found in Ötzi’s gut is most similar to three modern individuals from Northern India; the strain itself is, of course, older than the modern Northern Indian straince

    References and Citations.

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/582568/scitech/science/scientists-approximate-otzi-the-stone-age-mummy-s-voice

    http://www.dayofarchaeology.com/spend-a-day-at-your-museum/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi#Genetic_analysis

    Image credit.

    Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=10928855

    Naturalistic reconstruction of Ötzi – South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology

  • Common Link Language Of Vedic Sanatana Dharma India

    One finds references to South India, called Dravida Desa during the Santana Dharma Period

    There are references to in Tami literature and Sanskrit Texts, Vedas,Ramayan, Mahabharata,Eighteen Purans and in later Sanskrit and regional literary works.

    Regional literature refers to Sanatana Dharma and Ithihsas in detail, e it Tamil, Telugu,Kannda,Bangla, Oriya.

    Evidence abounds that a healthy trade between the people of the south  and the north flourished since the Vedic period.

    Now the question is how did these people communicate with each other in view of the fact that India has multiple languages and dialects.

    ‘

    There are 22 major languages in India, written in 13 different scripts, with over 720 dialects’  .https://www.justlanded.com/english/India/India-Guide/Language/Languages-in-India

    ‘According to Census of India of 2001, India has 122 major languages and 1599 other languages. However, figures from other sources vary, primarily due to differences in definition of the terms “language” and “dialect”. The 2001 Census recorded 30 languages which were spoken by more than a million native speakers and 122 which were spoken by more than 10,000 people’ -wiki

    Sanskrit is said to be oldest language being dated about 5000 years back.

    ( I had written this my not be correct and Sanskrit might be much older along with Tamil, an ancient language of India. million year old Tamil  Site near Chennai ,Tamil Nadu with advanced Tamil civilization.And Tami quotes Vedas and Vedas in turn quote Tamil and Tamil Kings.Please read my articles on this)

    The languages spoken in the south and even among the north indi differ.

    Sanskrit is accepted in all the regions though!

    Groups in India spoke  different languages.

    Yet they were in intimate contact with the Sanatana Dharma People whose language was Sanskrit.

    Not all groups were familiar with Sanskrit.To compound the issue there was Vedic Sanskrit and Panini Sanskrit ( Ashtdhyayi)

    ‘

    Vedic Sanskrit is the language of the Vedas, a large collection of hymns, incantations, and religio-philosophical discussions which form the earliest religious texts in India and the basis for much of the Hindu religion. Modern linguists consider the metrical hymns of the Rigveda to be the earliest. The hymns preserved in the Rigveda were preserved by oral tradition alone over several centuries before the introduction of writing, the oldest among them predating the introduction of Brahmi by as much as a millennium .[citation needed]

    The end of the Vedic period is marked by the composition of the Upanishads, which form the concluding part of the Vedic corpus in the traditional compilations, dated to roughly 500 BCE. It is around this time thatSanskrit began the transition from a first language to a second language of religion and learning, marking the beginning of the Classical period’

    And Tamil a past of not less than 20,000 years at a conservative estimate..the excavation of Poompuhar confirms the date.please read my article on this.

    There are references to the effect in Sanskrit Texts, Mahabharata  and Ramayana to Tamils.

    Udiyan Cheralathn, a Tamil King provided food to both the armies during the Mahabharata battle.

    Shiva is considered to be the founder of Tamil language.

    Agstya, Subrahmany are associated with Tamil intimately.

    Lord Krishna and Arjun married Tamil Pandyan Princesses;Krishna had a daughter and had her married to a Pandyan prince.;Arjuna had a son from south.

    Sahadeva went on a pilgrimage to south and Balarama came to south and worshiped Subrahmanya.and of course, Parshurma who founded the present Kerala State.

    I can go on adding in this vein.

    But the issue is, how did these people communicate with each other?

    The common thread seems to be Brahmi.

    Devimahatmya manuscript on palm-leaf, in an early Bhujimol script, Bihar or Nepal, 11th century
    Devimahatmya manuscript on palm-leaf, in an early Bhujimol script, Bihar or Nepal, 11th century,Variation of Brahmi

    Image Credit.

    By Anonymous – Commentary: The Devimahatmya cropped from http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/5/5.20/ms2174.jpg; taken from: w:en:Image:Devimahatmya Sanskrit MS Nepal 11c.jpg, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=191227

    ‘

    Brahmi (brāhmī) is the modern name given to one of the oldest writing systems used in South and Central Asia during the final centuries BCE and the early centuries CE. Like its contemporary, Kharoṣṭhī, which was used in what is now Afghanistanand Pakistan, it is an abugida.

    The best-known Brahmi inscriptions are the rock-cut edicts of Ashoka in north-central India, dated to 250–232 BCE. The script was deciphered in 1837 by James Prinsep, an archaeologist, philologist, and official of the East India Company.[1] The origin of the script is still much debated, with current Western academic opinion generally agreeing (with some exceptions) that Brahmi was derived from or at least influenced by one or more contemporary Semitic scripts, but a current of opinion in India favors the idea that it is connected to the much older and as-yet undeciphered Indus script…

    The Brahmi script diversified into numerous local variants, classified together as the Brahmic scripts. Dozens of modern scripts used across South Asia have descended from Brahmi, making it one of the world’s most influential writing traditions. One survey found 198 scripts that ultimately derive from it.

    The script was associated with its own Brahmi numerals, which ultimately provided the graphic forms for the Hindu–Arabic numeral system now used through most of the world.’

    Tamil Brahmi was discovered in Harappa and there is a Million year old Brahmi script found in Karnatka, Kannada Brahmi.

    Brahmi script, though associated with Sanskrit was also used in other parts of India with local variations.

    We have another,Brahui, spoken by Tamils and by the people of North Weaste India!

    ‘Brahui /brəˈhuːi/ (Brahui: براہوئی) is a Dravidian language spoken by the Brahui people in the central Balochistan region ofPakistan and Afghanistan, and by expatriate Brahui communities in Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, and Iran.It is isolated from the nearest Dravidian-speaking neighbour population of South India by a distance of more than 1,500 kilometres (930 mi). Kalat,Mastung, and Khuzdar districts of Balochistan are predominantly Brahui-speaking.

    Area where Dravidian languages are spoken
    Area where Dravidian languages are spoken,Brahui

    Image credit.

    By BishkekRocks – Base map template: demis.nl. Sorce for map data: Language families and branches, languages and dialects in A Historical Atlas of South Asia, Oxford University Press. New York 1992., CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1593835

    Tamil Chola King, ancestor of Rama, who built the Thiruvellarai Temple, near Sri Rangam, ruled from the present Pakistan region.

    Sibi Ruled from Pakistan

    We have yet another common Link language,after the advent of Buddhism.

    It is Pali .

    Pali is the Middle Indo-Aryan language in which the Theravada Buddhist scriptures and commentaries are preserved. Pali is believed by the Theravada tradition to be the same language as Magadhi, but modern scholars believe this to be unlikely.[citation needed] Pali shows signs of development from several underlying prakrits as well as some Sanskritisation.

    The prakrit of the North-western area of India known as Gāndhāra has come to be called Gāndhārī. A few documents written in the Kharoṣṭhi script survive including a version of the Dhammapada.

    Considering these facts it seems logical to conclude that  .apart from Sanskrit, Prakrit,Brahui and Pali were used as common link languages of India since Vedic Times.

    They have changed during the course of Time.

    References and Citations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_language

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent#Proto-Indo-Aryan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script

     

  • Were The Vedic People Literate

    One of the strengths of Sanatana Dharma is its Oral tradition of transmitting texts, both Philosophical and Scientific.

    But the sheer volume defies imagination.

    brah11
    Ancient scripts, Origin

    “With Thirty Million  Manuscripts existing even today,Sanskrit is the oldest Language of the world and the Rig Veda which is in Sanskrit is the oldest literature of the world”

    .Thirty Million Manuscripts Seven Hundred Poetic Meters  Sanskrit

    Is it possible for any race to transmit such a large volume only by Oral tradition?

    Could the people of Ancient India, of Sanatana Dharma, Bharatvarsha Read and Write?

    Western Scholars think it s possible and declare that the ancient Indians had Super Memories!

    phrase_sanskrit
    Evolution of South Asian Scripts.

    For this is convenient to deny at a later stage and declare that such a feat is impossible and hence the such oral traditions are a myth and hence can be dismissed as interpolations and a latest date may be assigned to them

    The fact that one finds Sanskrit Brahmi, and Tamil Brahmi were found in Indus Valley civilizations..

    This at the latest is dated at 3000 to 5000 BC

    And the finding of Kannada Brahmi in Karnataka.

    And Tamil Sangam Literature speaks of the Vedas, its texts.

    Consider the Mathematical , Biological, Astronomy,Genetics, texts which involve writing of the highest order.

    Imagine building, for example,The Thanjavur Big Temple or any other Temples and structures which could not  have been built with ot written calculations and drawings

    And,

    ‘western scholars of Indology said:
    “Entire absense of writing, reading, paper, or pen in vedas, or during Brahamana period and complete silence in Sutra period(When art of writing was beginning to be known), the whole Literature of India was preserved in oral tradition only”

    Weber who wants to bring all history to later than Biblical period admits:
    “Europe has 10,000 sanskrit texts and considering that we have tens of thousands which the parsimony of karma has hithherto withheld form Museums and libraries of Europe, what a memory must have been their!.”

    Indian super Memory
    The Immemorial practice with students of sanskrit literature has been to commit to memory the various subjects of their study and this practice of oral tradition has preserved the ancient Vedic texts. This fact has led Western Indology scholars to surmise that writing was unknown in the earliest period of Indian Civilization and that the later forms of the alphabet were not of pure Indian growth.

    So According to these Western Indology Scholars, Indians have Super Human Memory. By Which they can not only memorize scores of documents, but they can also transmit through generations. Wow!, Who said science fiction is 20th century Stuff.

    We are looking at this question. Did writing existed prior to Mauryas?

    Panini
    Panini is best known grammarian of India. Muller says that there is no single term in the panini terminology which presupposes the existence of writing. So we go to find out.

    Panini almost singlehandendly brought together the classical sanskrit grammer. He mentions Grantha the equivalent for written or bound book in the later days in India. For Max Muller Granta mean simply a composition, which is handed down the generation by oral tradition. In short Panini is illiterate and somehow he produced one of the most eloborate and scientific set grammer ever known to mankind till today.Remember Panini has given 3996 rules for Classical Sanskrit Grammar.

    Writing in Literature
    Classical Sanskrit Literature
    The direct reference to writing classical sanskrit according to Indologists in literature are found to be in the Dharmasutra of Vasistha, which Dr.Buhler thinks, was composed around 8th century BC. Some scholars will assign this work 4th century BC as well.Astadhyayi of panini contains such compounds as Lipikara and Libikara, which evidently mean writer. The date of panini is not fixed, prof.Goldstucker puts him 8th century BC, others put him in 4 the century BC. The Vedic works contain technical terms like aksara, kanda, patala, grantha and the like, which is clear indication of writing. Of course Indology scholars wont accept them.

    Buddhist age
    There are quite a large number of passages in the SriLanka’s Tipitaka, which bear witness to an acquaintance with writing and to its extensive use.

    At the time when Buddhist cannons were composed. Lekha and Lekhaka are mentioned in the Bhikkhu pacittiya and Bhikkhuni pacittiya.

    In the Jatakaas, constant meniton is made of letters being written. The Jatakas know of proclamations.

    Epic Age
    Epics contains archaic expressions such as likh, Lekha, Lakhaka, Lekhana but not lipi, which some scholars think is foriegn orgin. So Writing was known in Epic Age.

    Vedic Literature
    We find clear evidence in wide spread use of writing in the vedic period. Written documents are mentioned as legal documents.

    Scripts
    Brahmi
    The earliest surviving written record other than Indus script is Piprawa vase inscription discovered by Colonel Claxton peppe. This Inscription is a prakrit before the prakrits of magadhi or sourasheni developed, so differently interpreted. This is dated to early part of 5th century BC.

    Next comes Sohaura Copper plate , which Dr.Smith puts before Ashoka by 50 years.

    The Inscriptions of Ashoka is all over India. This shows that Writing was well used in Royal courts and the writting was well understood by common people.

    Dr.Weber came with view that Brahmi is borrowed from South Arab tribe. But this has been dismissed by Dr. Buhler.

    Buhler Identified certain Brahmi letters were identical to 9th-7th BC century Inscriptions found in Assyria. One third of 23 Alphabets are identical to Brahmi letters. This Indologists suggestions that the Brahmi letters were derived from these letters from all Indology scholars including Buhler. But we have to note that the tribes in question are belonging belonging to Indian Tribe. This script traveled from India to Middle east.

    Jain Stupa unearthed at the Kankali Tila site of Mathura regarded by Vincent Simith as the oldest known stupa then (Before Indus valley sites were discovered). Smith dated it to be 600 BC for erection. Dr.Fuhrer who supervised the excavation found out that it contained a inscription Deva Stupa in a script, so old that it was forgotten.

    Indus Script
    Indus Script has 250-500 characters. Some of the Seals seems to be Bilingual with Indus script next to the symbols. Seeming symbols to be for traders from other languages. So Indus valley is literate culture.”

    So the Ancient Indians knew Reading and writing and transmitted Vedic Texts orally to ensure that they are not destroyed.

    Citation and reference..

    http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/11/was-ancient-india-literate-super-human.html

    Image of ancient scripts Credit.

    http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/evolalpha.html

    http://www.ancientscripts.com/brahmi.html