The discussion among people who call themselves as Devotees of Kanchi and Sringeri is disgusting.
Kanchi adherents say that Sringeri Acharya travels by Car, ostentatious and does precious little for the Community.
On their part ,Sringeri Mutt followers say that Sri.Adi Sankara did not establish a Mutt at Kanchi at all as there can be one South Mutt and that’s Sringeri.
It is also added that Kanchi gets into unnecessary controversies that do not befit the Offices of an Acharya, much like the Pope.!
Kanchi retorts that Sringeri is the Asthana Peda of The Mysore Maharaja and Kanchi is for the common man!
Sringeri quotes JayendraSaraswati Episode and Kanchi had to squirm .
Are these people real Devotees, who are after the Truth and Realisation?
Let’s get the facts .
True that there is no historical evidence that the Kanchi Mutt was established by Adi Shankaracharya direct.
So what?
If some want to get a vicarious pleasure in criticising Kanchi , Be it.
On their part ,Kanchi need not attempt to justify the Petam by trying to twist History.
Kanchi Periyava is an incarnation of Compassion and a reflection of what a Real Sanyasi should be.
He advised Arthur Osbourne , who had come to ask him to accept him as his Disciple hie advised him that his Guru is Ramana Maharishi;he will return dissatisfied with him at the first instance and later become Ramana’s ardent Devotee.(Osbourne records this.I have posted on this)
As to Sringeri the dignity and the beauty of the Pooja of the Swamiji is to be felt to believed.
Contrary to what people think he was/ is very pragmatic.
His approach to the Duty of Sannyasa is ‘Perform duties as a Sanyasi by Poojas and Bhashans and leave the Empirical to the worldly.
“He Is There’
Not many people know how humble and Gracious he is.
I had an argument(!?) with him (Abhinava Vidyatheertha) on the interpretation of a sentence in The Vedas and was down right rude.
He sent for me latter , explained me(where he told me I was Right!) and taught me Vedas for about eight long years( though I attended intermittently)
When I went to seek a Darshan of Kanchi Periyava for the first time, he picked me from the Crowd(( I do not believe in getting recommendation in having Darshan in Temples or The Acharyas) and said’
” you are learning from the Sringeri Periyava, make sure you follow what he says”
He had no chance of knowing this.
This the mutual respect these great souls had for each other.
Our goal is Realisation and we are not qualified to comment on these Sages.
Let me quote Excerpt for MahaPeriyava site;
Sringeri Periyava said about Mahaperiyava::
Mahaperiyava speaks highly about Sringeri Periyava’s thapas::
Below is what Sringeri Periyava advises to all – I can’t agree anymore.
Last but not the least, Mahaperiyava admits that Kanchi Vs Sringeri is not going to end anywhere sooner…
http://mahaperiyavaa.wordpress.com/2012/10/06/kanchi-vs-sringeri/
I am not here to argue however I feel a responsibility on my fingers to type this. Being a sishya of shri abhinava theertha swamigal you shouldn’t have commented on the credibility of his holiness. Through this mindset you are proving the duality in your mind despite jagadhguru’s anugraham. With this duality it’s difficult to attain gnyana. You have to be a stithapragnya to aim for “realization” as you seem to have been aiming for that. Let me ask a simple question. Do you know who you are first? Without that scholastic perspective you can’t comment on any Shankaracharya. Period.
Na karmana na prajaya dhanena tyagenaike amrta tvamanasuh
parena nakam nihitam guhayam vibhrajate yadyatayo visanti
Vedanta vijnana suniscitarthahsamnyasa yogadyataya suddha sattvah
te brahma lokesu paranta kale paramratah parimucyanti sarve
Dharam vipapam paramesma bhutam yad pundarikam puramadhya sagastham
tatrapi dahram gaganam visokam tasmin ya dantastatu pasidavyam
Yo vedadau svara proktah vedante ca pratistitaha
tasya prakriti linasya yah parahssa mahesvaraha
Na tatra suryo bhati na candra tarakam nema vidyuto bhanti kutoyam agnihi
tameva bhantam anubhati sarvam tasya bhasa sarvam idam vibhati
I have not commented on the credibility of either of them.
and எப்பொருள் யார் யார் வாய்க் கேட்பினும் அப்பொருள் மெய்ப்பொருள் காண்பது அறிவு -Period.
my comment got wrongly posted in the main thread. anyways i didn’t wish to directly say it. the comment was aimed to “request/suggest” you to rethink your perspective on his holiness shri jayendra saraswathi swamigal as he was chosen by shri mahaperiyava. By commenting on his holiness you indirectly question mahaperiyaval’s decision. My point is simple: We shouldn’t react to everything in a hurry. Time is brahmam and Let it answer the unanswered questions. Don’t see him as a person. See him as an acharya of an adhyantha guru parampara. like how shri abhinava theertha swami had told in the above article they are all adi acharyal’s sishyas. thathasthu!
I stand by what I wrote on Jayaendrar.My blog is self explanatory.
A prayer to Adi Shankaracharya through mahaperiyava:
Shruthi smrithi purAnAnAm Alayam karunAlayam namAmi bhagavathpAda sankaram loka sankaram ||
ApAra karunA sindhum Jnanatham santha rupinam |
Sri Chandrasekara Gurum Pranamami Mudhaanvaham ||
If veda is satyam, advaitam is satyam, and if the saying “dharmo rakshati rakshaha” is true, shankara please provide an answer to this problem. this gentlemen and others who share a similar view doesn’t deserve agnyana. please clear their ignorance!
Your “Shankara bagavathpadha” has already given his answers in prashnothara rathna malika to these problems.
Looks like neither the commentator (abhinava) nor the blog post owner(srramana) has searched for the answer. These issues can’t be solved unless there is unity among advaitha philosphers and adi shankara sishyas. We are in kaliyuga. People like this blog writer are perfect example for that. What a great combo: A parmacharyar baktha feeling proud about being outspoken about jayendrar.
On a different note: I don’t understand why the blog owner quotes the above thrirukkural. What is the “மெய் பொருள்” he saw in the articles you he has posted about jayendrar?
கற்க கசடற கற்பவை கற்றபின்
நிற்க அதற்க்கு தக
If you have really searched for the truth in those articles you wouldn’t have posted it..
An appeal to everyone, Please go and do some better work than writing blog and comments. We are in kaliyuga. Nothing is going to change.
Mr.Venkartamanan: I reached your blog through google search on kanchi vs sringeri. Great post on paramacharya and sringeri periyava. I believe in adhvaita and hence both mutts.
I came across this post and comments. And I read your other posts on shri kanchi jayendra periyava. I am shocked. I am deeply hurt by your remarks on shri jayendrar (and hence to adishankara’s guru parampara). He is Jagadhguru. What are you doing man? Why isn’t there anyone to guide you in the right path? If you have a guru,ask him if what you do is right. I am not able to sleep. I pray the almighty to clear your mind and guide you in the path of Dharma.
“As to Sringeri the dignity and the beauty of the Pooja of the Swamiji is to be felt to believed.”
I have had the good opportunity of witnessing pujas performed by the Shringeri Swamiji, and have to say it was quite impressive, but the mundane person in me felt there could have been more devotedness expressed in some parts at least since it was not being performed by any secular personality but a pontiff. The way the flowers were offered during archana seemed as if they just put on the deity than being offered. Hope you get the difference between “put” and “offer”. At the same time, I believe you have not seen the Pooja performed by the Kanchi Acharyas, which I have had the opportunity to witness, too. Let us put controversies and everything else apart, but at the time the Peetadhipathis sit for puja, they get immersed in the bhava of “Shivo bhutva Shivam Yajet” – Worship Shiva by Becoming Shiva. Being judgmental is probably not one of the easiest things. Truth can exist on both sides, if you look at the minute details, and becomes open to debate.
And finally, let me confess, I am a student of Advaita and have no orientation towards any Mutt for me abhor one institution and adore the other.
Agreed but what is Secularism doing here?
Secular here indicates worldly, ordinary, mundane, not pertaining to anything spiritual or religious, and doesn’t denote the meaning commonly ascribed to it by the media. You may check the thesaurus for more on the word “secular”.
Srimad Bhagavad GIta says “brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kankshati
samah sarveshu bhuteshu mad-bhaktim labhate param”. So a realised soul does not differentiate a widow or man or ant. For him, the supreme being is seated in everyones heart and they are part of the supreme being themselves. So ideally the Acharyas should not treat widows seperate.
But is this differentiation done by the acharyas or the administrators around him? While the Acharya can be genuinely realised, most people around him are there for Power, publicity etc. This is very true among Brahmins. being Brahmin myself, i hate to say this. We think doing sandhyavandhanam and drinking filter cofee is spirituality. But we hardly enquire. Enquiry is the fist step to spirituality. So when most of us around the acharya are like this and the only reason we ae around him is for publicity these things are bound to happen and the acharyas may not have complete control over the situation. Again, i dont say all brahmins are like this.
Best bet is to focus on Adi shankaras teaching. The moment we set ourselves in the higher plane, these small thing get out of our focus.
Next time we see such differentiation in Mutts, i think somebody has top raise their voice. Somebody has to go past these administrators and reach the acharya.
Thanks for the reply.
Sringeri Periava used to visit my Athais house in the early sixties.My athai and athimber were ardent followers.I remember taking his aashirvaadam when I was a kid everytime he visited my Athais house.Those days it was a big exciting day for all of us.
Thinking back now the only picture that stands fresh in my mind is my Athimber [who was a loving son and a caring human being ] turning into a totally different person.His mother who was widowed and had shaved her head along with another widowed cook who would come in to help with the prasadam preparation were ushered into the inner rooms so that the Acharya did not have the first Darshan of these dirty measly beings.For Athimber his loving mother who had given birth to him and taken care of all his need even after he lost his father became a embarrassment.
I wonder whether The Acharya knew that The widowed cook had prepared a part of the prashad. I am sure he didnt!!!!. He would have fainted if he knew.
The funny thing was that both these mottai pattis as they were crudely referred to and jeered at by some of the people took it in their stride and huddled inside in a hurry.
They would peep at the great Mannah from heaven and fold their hands in pranam .
My question is what odds and ends of shastras were these so called acharyas/periavas following?Did they follow it strictly?
Did these great Gods know if a widow came with a sindoor and flowers through their GNANA drishti????I am sure in their life time they got to see and bless a number of non
con forming widows like my own mother- in- law for example who visited the Kanchi Periava{!!!!!!!} twice during his lifetime. She was not trying to con him. She did not believe in rituals that had no logic but she respected Kanchi Periava for his Vidvat!!!My mother in law was a great woman.She lost her husband when she was 26 and left with 3 children to take care of.
I am sure Bothe the Mutt periavas would have told her to shave her tresses,not wear sindoor or flowers , dress in a sandal coloured saree and sit in a corner-Well thats the way of the periavas-I dont see any logic there.
My Mom-in- law who had finished her SSLC took a clerical job and started studying part time. She went on to do her BA, MA and LAW.She worked for a consulate office in Chennai and did her part time MBA when she was 45.
Of course according to the Shastras or at least the PERIAVAS that is a criminal offence.
It always amuses me though that the poor Kanchi Periava blessed her twice unknowingly though!
I have a profound question here .According to The Law of Karma who has done the paavam here? the Poor acharya who blessed my maamiyaar OR my mother in law who did not follow any ritual???
Going further dont you think the 2 acharyas did a grave mistake even looking at Shaved widows – According to me they should have propagated SATI amongst their devoted shishyas-explaing to them how it was a crime to allow their widowed sisters, mothers and daughters to live on the facde of this earth.
I can go on and on and no one is going to agree with me ANYWAY!!
———————————————————————————————————–
My reply has been specific in that the Shastras do not grant these.
And an Acharya of the stature of Sringeri has also accepted this and the change is taking place.
However one can not deny that they are Great Gnanis and people to be revered.
One can never even imagine going near them in therms of learning, discipline and Compassion.
It does not be-hove well of poking fun at them .
If one does feel so strongly about them, better be away from them.Period.
Regards.
You bring up a lot of good points… And I have had my own set of questions… Setting aside the widow issues for a second, and keeping it to just men, there have been many ‘bad’ men who got better darshans than ‘good’ men.
But one thing I have come to realize over a long period of time… Just because one got a first row seat in front of an acharya or a god doesn’t mean one gets more blessings… The ones getting priority and the others pissed at not getting it are the only ones feeling so… What the divine does is beyond our perception…
Paramacharya did often give priority to poor archakas or sastrigals coming from remote villages over even politicians… But unlike pure sanyasis like a Ramana maharishi, paramacharya also had the functional role of a madathipathi… So, he had to do some things with some protocols… A person who is a maverick software engineering guru can work nights and sleep during the day but if he/she starts a company and becomes CEO, he/she needs to be in the office more during regular office hours, be an example by showing up relatively early… There are exceptions… Madathipathis have protocols and have to do some things even if for just being a role model… As a guide for many, he adhered to many protocols – sometimes a bit too strictly… He later relaxed a lot of rules… and in later years did see many ‘mottai paattis’…
He was in a big dilemma when Indira Gandhi (who was a widow) wanted to meet him… And relented…
Now moving on beyond acharyas… Let’s take god or even nature (for atheists) – why are some born into deplorable conditions and then handed out even worse situations whereas others are born into fantastic conditions and given even better situations…? Why? What did the Yezidi women that have suffered indescribably at the hands of the ISIS extremists do? Why are many of the extremists having a great time?
I do not have answers…
But a recent revelation I had on Rama avatar made me pause… I was not a fan of Rama growing up since I thought he made his close ones suffer a lot and talked too much of a goody game… But I have come to realize that he did to give us a playbook (and shlokas/prayers and such) to handle our own life as we went through trials and tribulations… by being a role model who went through many human issues… If he used his super powers, then Ramayana would have wrapped up in a few minutes… He didn’t really need the help of many people but took their help to uplift them…and us.
2
Kausalya, this article addresses your issue head on – particularly the Nagamma portion – http://www.kamakoti.org/souv/5-58.html
Whatever be it my Respect for Kanchi Mutt ends with Mahaperyava whom I believe is God’s Incarnation.
I would never go there now — no way I believe Jayendrar or Vijayendrar to be realised souls–after what they did in the Mutt & the Mutt was being run as Corporate office by retd CAs , Bank Managers & IAS babus.
You are correct.
In fact I was a spectator in Jayendrar episode at Bangalore.
I have posted an article on this.
I had to hang my head in shame in front of others when people made disparaging remarks as I had no answers.
If Kanchi Periava is a picture of Compassion as you so claim why does he treat the poor widows who only want a darshan of him as if they are a stinking dirty being..After all they have been widowed and ostracised by society.I understand he gives darshan to widows with their hair shaved but even there they are treated as secondary or tertiary beings.Most of these women are poor,ostracised by their own family and only coming to seek some solace and aashirvad from him.
At the same time plenty of widows from the affluent society who wear sidoor and flowers are allowed to have his darshan unknowingly!!!!!!!
Strange are the ways of PERIAVAS as they call themselves!!!!!
A prostitute who keeps plenty of flowers in her hair and a big sindoor will be allowed inside the kanchi Mutt for Darshan of the Maha periava-And He will bless her without a word-You call him a incarnation of God-Please dont insult God this way!!
I am a Hindu Belonging to the forward caste and I am ashamed of Maha Periavas ways.
Of course the other issue is the Untouchables who are also Hindus-No darshan or blessing for them-When Lord Rama could accept Sabhari and Lord Shiva Kannappa Nayanar who are these so called self proclaimed periavas who think they are above God.
Can anyone give me logical answers to my questions without beating around the bush?
I have asked some scholars and followers and everyone BEATS around the bush-because no one wants to accept that Kanchi Chiinava was WRONG.Very Wrong
I have respect for Jayendra and Vijayendra Saraswathi who treat a human being as a being and not a sick dog!!!
My great grandfather who was a Sanskrit scholar in the Pudukottai Devasthanam went for a darshan of MAHA CHINNAVA some 85 years ago with his relatives and friends .Some of the widows had shaved and the others had not. Immediately the Very disciplined Shishyas of the Kanchi Mutt started forming queues. All the unshaved widows had to stand far away to get a darshan of the MIRACLE who had become the new Head of the Kanchi Mutt.The shaved ones were grudgingly allowed to go midway- not very near because they were stinking beings.
My great grandfather questioned this asking what Paavam they had done .
Kanchi PERIAVA OF COURSE DID NOT HAVE A CONVINCING answer.
My dear great grandpa did a about turn ,prayed at the temple and came back home-None of the group that went with him had a darshan of PERIAVA-You may say it was my Great grand pa’s loss and not Periava’s~-So be it
I know of my neigbour who was the mistress of a famous doctor in our locality who had a terrific darshan of the Periava about 10 years back-I dont blame her, I blame him the poor soul who does not know what he is doing.
I hope someone has answers to my questions-without dilly dallying.
I will be happy to hear logical answers to all my accusations.
I am glad that some one has the courage to air this view.
You are right.
At the risk of offending the Acharya’s so called shishyas, let me say this-this practice has been followed till about early 80’s
Though you have said that it was Jayendraswati, I may add that even the Maha Periyava was following this habit.
After early 80’s this practice has become less, though it is practiced even now.
In fact Sringeri Acharya, was also following this habit.
As said earlier this also changed.
I had the privilege of being taught The Vedas by Sringeri Acharya(Abhhinava Vidyathheertha); when I asked him about this practice of segregating widows’
he replied that it was being practiced as a routine and was changing and we see this happening now.
As to the Sastras , no body would tell you which Sastra they are talking about.
To the best of my knowledge Adi Sankaracharya did not lay this rule and others do not matter.
In fact Adi Sankaracharya was reprimanded by Lord Shiva for asking a Chandala to give way to him!
To conclude, you are right that this practice is wrong and has no sanction of the Sruthi or Smriti and Manusmriti is not applicable for this case.
Having stated boldly that you are from the Forward Community , I wish you were bolder to say that You are a Brahmin-One should be proud of being one and need not be defensive about it.
Thank You.
It is surprising to see this reply from you as you had mentioned in the post above,”Our goal is Realization and we are not qualified to comment on these Sages.”
I hope you know the meaning of the saying : “Shambor murthhi charathi bhuvane shankaracharya rupa”
I am a novice and I don’t know what you witnessed to have commented this. My 2 cents for you: Kannal parpadhum poi, kadhal ketpadhum poi, theera visaripadhe mey. Don’t enquire to the outside world. Just ask a simple question to your atma: “Would mahaperiyava’s choice be wrong?” It “might” be possible the control of mutt activities were decentralized and there was mismanagement. you can’t blame a sanyasi for that. But he is accountable and that’s why he has taken the blame for the same. Time will answer. Thanks for providing me an excellent opportunity to read your article and visit your blog.
I don’t get your point.
I have the highest respects for the Acharya and this would be evident by the post.
Please elaborate.
If you are referring to my posts on Jayendrar and posted this comment , well, on Jayendrar….?
I am not here to argue however I feel a responsibility on my fingers to type this. Being a sishya of shri abhinava theertha swamigal you shouldn’t have commented on the credibility of his holiness. Through this mindset you are proving the duality in your mind despite jagadhguru’s anugraham. With this duality it’s difficult to attain gnyana. You have to be a stithapragnya to aim for “realization” as you seem to have been aiming for that. Let me ask a simple question. Do you know who you are first? Without that scholastic perspective you can’t comment on any Shankaracharya. Period.
Na karmana na prajaya dhanena tyagenaike amrta tvamanasuh
parena nakam nihitam guhayam vibhrajate yadyatayo visanti
Vedanta vijnana suniscitarthahsamnyasa yogadyataya suddha sattvah
te brahma lokesu paranta kale paramratah parimucyanti sarve
Dharam vipapam paramesma bhutam yad pundarikam puramadhya sagastham
tatrapi dahram gaganam visokam tasmin ya dantastatu pasidavyam
Yo vedadau svara proktah vedante ca pratistitaha
tasya prakriti linasya yah parahssa mahesvaraha
Na tatra suryo bhati na candra tarakam nema vidyuto bhanti kutoyam agnihi
tameva bhantam anubhati sarvam tasya bhasa sarvam idam vibhati
If you believe and are a true devotee of the Paramacharyal of Kanchi Sri Chandrasekara Saraswathi Mahaswamigal you would never speak like this. You insult and disrespect the Paramacharyal by discriminating his sishya Acharyals Sri Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal and Sri Vijayendra Saraswathi Swamigal who were nominated the Paramacharyal. Do you mean to say that Paramacharyal had no gnana dhrishti and have nominated the Acharyas wrongly. How childish and immatured you are at this age. I am in my 30s and you dont have one fourth of my maturity. If you are a refined person who follow the anushtanas and folllw the sayings of the Paramacharyal you would never think like this and it is because of sinful people in the name of devotees like you the Acharyas are suffering?
An institution has a life and logic of its own, and generates its own atmosphere and dynamics, mainly due to the personality of the Acharya and partly in response to running pressures. However not all those who come to head it command universal respect. Not all turn out to be equally deserving of high regard or respect. But we do bow to the seat.
Kanchi Mutt shot into fame and cheap publicity due to the press and media, which till the 70s was dominated by Brahmins, and which catered predominantly to an educated middle class. Not all heads of mutts can take such developments in their stride.
Acharyas like Paramacharya will appear perhaps once in a thousand years. He redefined sanyasa dharma and showed how the ideal can still be practised even in these times. Such majestic simplicity the Mutt has certainly lost after Paramacharya. People are therefore justified in not entertaining towards the Mutt now the kind of regard they had at the time of Paramacharya. This is a personal feeling. Why should we question that?
As for Paramacharya choosing his successors, well it is true. But then why did Jayendra Saraswati run away from the Mutt,even when Paramacharya was living. when he had already distanced himself from administration?? We cannot answer this, any more than we can answer why did Christ admit Judas in his circle! Sri Ramakrishna would say Jatila-Kutila are required to thicken the plot!
Paramacharya was the greatest figure after Sri Bodhendra ( 59th Pontiff- 1638-1692). Sri Bodhendra gave a new turn to our dharma. Paramacharya reiterated the traditional dharma. We follow neither fully, but rush to judge! How sad!
Great Mahatmas will not adorn the peetha in regular succession. One following an unusually great Acharya is at a special disadvantage! But the institution continues and deserves our respect, if not our personal allegiance in every case.
Very true and admirably expressed.My views exactly.Regards