The discussion among people who call themselves as Devotees of Kanchi and Sringeri is disgusting.
Kanchi adherents say that Sringeri Acharya travels by Car, ostentatious and does precious little for the Community.
On their part ,Sringeri Mutt followers say that Sri.Adi Sankara did not establish a Mutt at Kanchi at all as there can be one South Mutt and that’s Sringeri.
It is also added that Kanchi gets into unnecessary controversies that do not befit the Offices of an Acharya, much like the Pope.!
Kanchi retorts that Sringeri is the Asthana Peda of The Mysore Maharaja and Kanchi is for the common man!
Sringeri quotes JayendraSaraswati Episode and Kanchi had to squirm .
Are these people real Devotees, who are after the Truth and Realisation?
Let’s get the facts .
True that there is no historical evidence that the Kanchi Mutt was established by Adi Shankaracharya direct.
So what?
If some want to get a vicarious pleasure in criticising Kanchi , Be it.
On their part ,Kanchi need not attempt to justify the Petam by trying to twist History.
Kanchi Periyava is an incarnation of Compassion and a reflection of what a Real Sanyasi should be.
He advised Arthur Osbourne , who had come to ask him to accept him as his Disciple hie advised him that his Guru is Ramana Maharishi;he will return dissatisfied with him at the first instance and later become Ramana’s ardent Devotee.(Osbourne records this.I have posted on this)
As to Sringeri the dignity and the beauty of the Pooja of the Swamiji is to be felt to believed.
Contrary to what people think he was/ is very pragmatic.
His approach to the Duty of Sannyasa is ‘Perform duties as a Sanyasi by Poojas and Bhashans and leave the Empirical to the worldly.
“He Is There’
Not many people know how humble and Gracious he is.
I had an argument(!?) with him (Abhinava Vidyatheertha) on the interpretation of a sentence in The Vedas and was down right rude.
He sent for me latter , explained me(where he told me I was Right!) and taught me Vedas for about eight long years( though I attended intermittently)
When I went to seek a Darshan of Kanchi Periyava for the first time, he picked me from the Crowd(( I do not believe in getting recommendation in having Darshan in Temples or The Acharyas) and said’
” you are learning from the Sringeri Periyava, make sure you follow what he says”
He had no chance of knowing this.
This the mutual respect these great souls had for each other.
Our goal is Realisation and we are not qualified to comment on these Sages.
Let me quote Excerpt for MahaPeriyava site;
Sringeri Periyava said about Mahaperiyava::
Mahaperiyava speaks highly about Sringeri Periyava’s thapas::
Below is what Sringeri Periyava advises to all – I can’t agree anymore.
Last but not the least, Mahaperiyava admits that Kanchi Vs Sringeri is not going to end anywhere sooner…
http://mahaperiyavaa.wordpress.com/2012/10/06/kanchi-vs-sringeri/
Ramanan- you have made your points well.There is a story that once Shiva and Rama fought but reconciled; but the fight between their followers- the bhuta ganas and monkey troops- did not stop. This undignified and senseless controversy about the two Mutts is spread by some self-styled zealots of either side. There is no evidence that the Acharyas ever uttered a word against each other. And who are these ‘sishyas’? All absolute hypocrites They all talk of Veda and its preservation; yet how many of them have sent their own children for Veda study? All stark hypocrites.
Now, there are some general points.
1. There is no historical evidence at all for the existence of Adi Shankara. Likewise, there is no direct historical evidence for the existence of the famous Shaiva saints too. One has to go by hagiographical accounts and not historical evidence’
2. There is no clarity as to whether there were more than one Shankara. The one who wrote the Advaita Granthas could not have written the Bhakti granthas.For according to pure Advaita of Shankara, Jnana alone is the means of liberation and not Bhakti. Scholars have pointed out that the 55 or so books attributed to Adi Shankara differ so widely in their language and style that they all could not have been written by the same person.
3. There is no historical evidence that Adi Shankara established any Mutt, leave alone the 4 amnaya mutts. This is just conventional belief (or bull shit, if one thinks so) No Jnani (self-realised person ) ever starts an organisation. (Kanchi Paramacharya too distanced himself from the affairs of the Mutt in the last two decades of his life.) We know in our own times how Sri Ramakrishna Math and Sri Ramanasramam came into existence.
4. We have still not recovered from the recent Jayendrar episode. But the more serious one is when he left the Mutt and also the dandam and literally ran away. I and a group of devotees were once talking to Sri Trichy Swamigal (Who established the Rajarajeswari Temple in Bangalore ) during those days. He told us. that he had told Jayendrar that it was grievously wrong for him to have left his dandam and he had sent him a dandam at Talaikaveri.Sri Jayendrar is also credited with some spiritual (or occult?) powers but the heart refuses to accept him as Jagatguru.
5. Sringeri Mutt too has had its controversies. Though Tipu Sultan had killed thousands of Hindus and forcibly converted lakhs, Sringeri Mutt accepted gifts from him, which he was prompted to give on the advice of astrologers! Some time ago, Sri Bhuta Singh as Congress Treasurer used to visit Sringeri frequently. There was a talk then in knowledgeable circles that the Mutt was used to keep the black money of the party!
5.Personalities come and go, but the Institution remains. Just because we don’t like a person, we can’t badmouth the Institution. As the English say, ” down with the king, Long live the crown!”
6 Anyone who knows our social history of the last century will realise the kinds of forces that held sway in the country and especially in Tamil Nadu and only the Paramacharya could save the Mutt from the serious anti-Brahmin wave, which has risen and ruled the state.(Not only the political parties, even the other Mutts and the general public are against the Kanchi Mutt for various reasons.) This is so in respect of Sri Ramanasramam in Tiruvannamalai ( because it is considered a Brahmin outfit) and also Sri Aurobindo Ashram in Pondicherry (because it is considered North Indian and non-Tamil ).People should know that it was the Paramacharya who was responsible for safeguarding the freedom of worship of the various sects of every religion by suggesting appropriate words to the relevant rules which later became Article 26 of the Constituion, which even Dr.Ambedkar did not touch!
7. There will always be gap between the Seer and the so called disciples and attendants surrounding him..I will give just one instance. I had darshan of Paramacharya in February, 1972 at Shivastanam. Around that time, some Hindu-Muslim disturbances had taken place around Arni.Some villagers from the place were relating the matter to the Paramacharya, and he was keenly questioning them. Suddenly, he stopped talking, asked the people around to recite Vishnu Sahasranamam, closed his eyes and fell silent. 15-20 people in the gathering including some ladies started the recital. Then some pundit from the Mutt shouted that ladies should not recite it and asked them to stop. One lady could not take it and she shot back: Yes, I am not M.S.Subbulakshmi, so how can I recite it?This incident took place in the very presence of Paramacharya. The so called disciples and followers will not stop their monkey-tricks, in the name of the Acharya.
On points relating to Shankara please read my posts on his Date.
One link https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/tag/date-of-adi-shankara/
Shankaras’ style of writing is uniform and a lay man like me can identify the Padppraoga of Shankara.
Shankara as a fact though I do not really consider him as an Avatar of Shiva which seems to be lacking in evidence as one can find in the case of Rama or Krishna.
As to Nayanmars there is plenty of evidence about all of them and I shall be writing on them ith evidence soon.
As the reference to Jayendrar and Tiruchi Samingal, your information that Tiruchi Swamigal did not like Jayendrarar leaving Mutt from Kanchi is correct.I was presnt when arrangements were made for Jayendrar to stay in Thala Cauvery by Tiruchi Swamigal.Please check my posts on Jayendrar by Googling Jayendra Saraswathy + ramanan50
As to women reciting Vishnu Sahasranama , though it is a Maha Mantra that can be recited by every one including women, I have noticed that women who recite Vishnu Sashasranama suffer, including MS.I do not know why or How!This despite the fact that women Rishis like Karthyayani and Maitreyi were Seers of the Vedas and the former has contributed a Suktha!
Yes, Paramacharya had a huge role to play in stemming the anti Brahmin tide in Tamil Nadu though people are not aare of this.
As to Sringeri Mutt accepting gifts kindly read my post on Tippu presented Lings to Sringeri Mutt.
Thank you for your detailed comments.
Regards
Amazing,!!! MS suffered because she recited the Vishnu Sahasranamam! Sir,There are hundreds and thousands of men who recite the Vishnu Sahasranamam but suffer inspite of being the exalted great Male gender-why?Simple-Every human being has to go through his Karma-name one person in this world[who does or does not recite Vishnu Sahasranamam] who passes through this world without suffering.Even Visnhu incarnations like Rama and Krishna suffered.I am sure you know how even Seers and sages suffer physically due to diseases and otherwise due to false cases on them etc.Why did Kanchi Periava give permission to MS to recite the Vishnu Sahasra namam if he knew it would cause her suffering.I am sure Lord Vishnu Will not impose suffering on a woman who recites his name just because she is a lowly female gender.After all he is a God.Only Human beings get all confused with their Vedas,The Manu Smriti and traditions that have crept in over the years. You had mentioned previously that I am confused with Sir William Jones making the Smriti part of the Hindu Law in the 1700s. I am not.Nor am I a hater.I am a saddened being.He did and we Hindus kept quiet as usual because most of us believed in it .It is amazing that we have not continued following the Smriti to its teeth.
Manu smriti sanskrit slokas pertaining to men and women are to be read to be believed.It is surprising that they have not been followed to the T in our misogynist society.Widows however are still treated like Dirt,as inauspicious wherever they live or go and this custom HAS NOT Changed.The Mutts,Movies, TV Serials and self taught Gurus have only accentuated these rules for widows to such an extent that people are scared to consider them as normal human beings like their male counter parts.All movies and serials show widows change over to sparkling white without bangles,thali,flowers and Bindi.Even in todays society people like to Stare at widows who dress otherwise.They are sometimes even branded. My mother always tells me about a sad joke in the villages about how the husband is referred to as a pudhu maapilai from the moment his wife dies.”Ennada ponnu parthu ralaama?” For a bereaved woman however from the moment her husband departs to the high heavens it is the beginning of Hell for her in our society.You can try to tell me that things have changed but they have not and will never will thanks to our sadistic society. I have seen enough death ceremonies where the poor woman is put through shit. We need reformists who can advise and prove to the educated intelligentia of oue society that widow hood is equal to widowerhood[That name { coined} and that widows do not pass on inauspiciousness to others including their near and dear ones. Sir,I consider you one such reformist or dspeaker of the truth who can tell the world what is what.Is manu really the incarnation of God and is the Smriti his Bhagavad Gita?? regards,VGSS
There are some practices, not all of them are illogical and not sanctioned either by Smriti or Sruthi. They are being practiced. I am writing on them. Quoting Manu for every wrong practice is incorrect.
Mr. Ramanan,
Debate on these shankaracharya’s are an old affair and a very boring one (this was the debates which used to happen during the thathas and patis etc).. It is surprising to see so called “initiates” of mutts resorting to the same kind of comparisons!… Why is there always conflict between Sringeri and Kanchi? Why don’t you also do the same comparative analysis with the other mutts if you get some satisfaction on it? it is better to be united with common perspectives rather than showing the superiority over others. Any Shankaracharya , whether Sringeri, or Kanchi have put effort and dedication due to which they were selected for the post. Are we able to put the same effort? Rather than criticizing people, sharing of experiences would do a good deal for people and help improve the faith.
Regards
Common man
My post is to point out the unbecoming behavior of people in the garb of Swamijis., whether it is Jayendrar or Nithyananda, whom Jayendrar. was interested in meeting.
As to my sharing of experiences I have quite a few posts on this,on Hinduism and Philosophy.
One has to to have felt the pain , as a Brahmin, when one is ridiculed after the Jayendrar incidence.
I have stated this in my post as well.
There are no Popes to condone these acts in Hinduism
It clearly shows your family background and your low breed making you to think and compare the Acharya Swamigal Jayendra Saraswathi Swamigal with Nithyananda.
There is no point in speaking logic to someone who will not listen,Visalakshi.I have tried many times to find out from this blog whether i should follow the manu Smriti ony as this blog and the late Kanchi seer said.But i dont get a answer. If they want to hide behind manu,start the old practices,sati,allow a married”barren” woman to sleep with her brother in law after 8 years.Follow all the shameless practices that treat women like a shameful piece of dirt.dont try to be half and half.If the Mutt is scared of non conformist widows,let them say so,openly.a widower can marry again immediately after his wife dies-In fact there is a proverb in the villages which goes’Ennada pudhu maapillay kalai kattaradu”Men can marry any number of women to contain their lust.The names of famous men in our society with more than one wife and mistresses extra ,are everyones knowledge.A man with 2 wives is considered virile and great.You and I have seen men flaunting their wives in public.whereas if a Amangali or Sumangali is seen speaking to a man,she is considered bad..Who is this Manu who decides about the individual capacities of every human on earth?is he a God?Is he a Avatar?He seems a frustrated man.As it is our Society DOES not ACccept widows on par with others.She cannot be part of a good function,she better sit away.She cannot partake in her childrens weddings directly.She has to allow some Tom,Dick or harry,who may be a big womaniser to conduct the wedding because he is her husbands relative and has a semblance of a sumangali with him.I am speaking only to Visalakshi who seems to understand what I am saying.Its a waste of time and energy,Visalakshi,widows will be treated as dirt for generations.I will not be surprised if Widows start opting for sati .A widow should lead the life of a sanyasin.Why should she?Who is society and Manu to run her life?are threy her keepers?Unless widows protest against these atrocities the indian society will not change.I am sure you have read about the widows of vrindavan.It is very wrong for a mutt head to say that widows should be ostracised and shamed.It is Wrong,wrong,wrong.No blogger can debate this.they can for the sake of debating
Sati s wrong. Manu Smith is to be read in its entirety in its original form.
regards…..
jaya jaya sankara…
hara hara sankara..
kanchi sankara ..shringeri sankara…
kamakshi sankara….saradha sankara…
Pranams to HOLY saints. There is a famous saying DONT LOOK IN TO NADHIMULAM OR RISHI MULAM. Both peetathipathis are our gurus and have rendered yeoman service to society. It is all because of thapas radiance of such saints we get food and water in our country today. Once again I request to stop this conflict as we are immersed in HINDUMAHA SAMUDRAM. Let us follow teir words
My namsakarams to one and all..
Hello respected Sir(s),
Being a Brahman , I wanted to say something basic. I think all of the comments here are little arguments, to basically reason ‘ Raising the benchmark (rather Restoring the benchmark , (except to the fact of antagonizing looking at widows )) of Kanchi, OR Shringeri to high esteem and order.
I think it is better not to take arguments into a fight but to take this and influence (does not mean advisory here but just to manage expectations of administrating and executing the mutt operations better, ) to the mutt administrators.. .. after all we are students , learning from our GURU..
even Shirdi SAI (I consider HIM as an incarnation of Bhagawan), gets angry to people when he was blessing.. . while I have got disturbed how he can get angry initially but then HE makes us realize us , that was done, to make us understand how AFFECTION and TRUE LOVE gets shown.
I am sure (the way you recite these slokas in this line make me get Goose pimples) more learned individuals, like you all understand that GOD’s wish such incidents (Meiporul here means fact represented as fact), and make it happen to unveil few things, and make them more solid …
(who knows how many atmas are changed to soulful atmas by our mutts, in centuries to come)
yes I also understand that we feel bitter, for us to be in the midst of these .. , but we need to understand that this is coming from you respective learned individuals, because of our respective TRUE LOVE and AFFECTION to our MUTTS.. at some point of time in your life..
i only hope we take this positively and work towards improving our belief and trust..
so anyone who does NOT want to treat the current leadership in their respective locations as GOD let be it.. or others (like his disciples) want to respect them as GURU or GOD let be it…
after all GOD is everywhere and he who sees GOD in others and perform good things, will get blessed.. kindly leave Judgement to HIM
it would be great if we get more positive with our respective actions…in our religious , devotional topics..
pray GOD to bless us all..
I totally agree,thank you
If people read my posts , they would know that it is Realization that is important.
Secondly, as a Community, we have been subjected to ridicule already and our Gurus should try to elevate our ilk and not sully the Religion.
It is out of anguish I felt when some people mocked at me and they had facts.
That resulted in my out pour.
If people care to read my posts with an open mind, they would know what I am talking about our Religion and Philosophy.
I do not know how young you are but seem to be matured with out the shackles of Dogma.
அன்பே சிவம்.
सब लोग के अंधर परमात्मा विराज्मान है | इसीलिए कोई को द्वेष मत करो | गुस्सा मत करो | – Jagadhguru’s message during Peetarohana Swarna Jayanthi.
@Shri.Krishnan,There is still a positive spirit. Healthy debates make us understand each other’s perspectives. It makes us clarify things better. That’s why comments exist in blogs and that’s the reason why we are here. Good points.
@Shri.Venkatramanan: I have read your posts with open mind. I have acknowledged your efforts as well. Coming to Religions and Philosophy, Jagadhgurus also in one way represent the religion and philosophy that you are talking about. Like how corruption starts with one person if we start to certify a particular Jagadhguru as bad or ineffective, that’s the starting point to trigger disbelief and later it could be generalized.
From the beginning my point has been simple. Don’t see Jagadhgurus as individuals(from which mutt, who he is etc.,). While your post acknowledges we shouldn’t differentiate mutt(good) but your attitude towards his holiness questions an individual. Connect with them as representatives of Guru Parampara which goes back to அன்பே சிவம். These are also facts from Vedanta and Upanishads. I’m not a scholar to point you the exact place where it has been said. If we acknowledge Love is God and he is everywhere we won’t dislike anyone(which includes characters discussed in these comments).
PS: சிவம் represents God and not any religion in particular. After all religion it self is a way of living and society is yet to understand that.
I know you won’t respond. Be yourself, I just feel equally bad for the historic incidents that has made you develop anguish. I pray the almighty to bless you with mental peace and acceptance to every country(including srilanka), religion(including islam) and everyone including Jagadhgurus of all mutt. after all they have sacrificed their life for preserving Dharma. Wish you good luck. Of course, your stand isn’t going to change my belief that “God is one and he is everywhere” and let my replies not change your attitude towards kanchi periyava. Loha samastha suhino bhavanthu.
Thank You and Regards