Ramanisblog

Tag: Kannada

  • All Languages of India 5000 Years Old, Conservative Estimate

    All Languages of India 5000 Years Old, Conservative Estimate

    The plethora of Languages in India is mind boggling.

    22 Official languages( some estimate to be 25) and 720 Dialects( some estimate 2000) !

    ( http://translation-blog.trustedtranslations.com/india-the-country-with-more-than-2000-dialects-2011-10-18.html

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent)

    The unraveling of the History of these languages is very difficult and calls for an understanding of the Cultural undercurrent running through all these languages.

    Regions may vary,languages and dialects may vary,but the ethos of Sanatana Dharma straddles them like a colossus,albeit with slight modifications as in Tamil,though the core remains the same.

    Looking through the prism of Foreign Culture,would obfuscate the study for to classify and assign them dates without taking Sanatana Dharma into account ,will result in arriving at incorrect conclusions.

    There,again, we have the myth,now debunked Theory of Aryan Invasion.

    This helped the Invaders to divide the country and enaled them to rule India.

    So, a grand design was worked out.

    Take Indian languages,without taking Sanatana Dharma into account,underlying cultural unity among these languages,refer and link these languages to countries,which are now independent of India,like Afghanistan,Iran,Iraq,forgetting the the fact that Bharatavarsha extended throughout the globe,some 5000 years ago.

    (Please read my articles on the spread and Sanatana Dharma, under ‘Hinduism’ or google the country plus Sanatana Dharma +ramanan 50.)

    So for the common man the message was that,

    There are two major Languages,Sanskrit and Tamil,

    The other languages were derived out of either of these or a mixture of two.

    This makes the job of misinformation easier.

    One,you can divide people on the basis of Language and another,you can date individual languages as you please,meaning assign them much later dates!

    What are the facts,when one takes the parameters of Sanatana Dharma,its pervasive nature throughout the world and an independent analysis of each language in conjunction with Sanatana Dharma and the history of a language based on its history and its Dialects?

    1.There ,my research over eight years on Sanatana Dharma,its presence thorughout the world civilizations,my study of Indian languages’s History, compel me to arrive at different sets of facts on Indian languages and their dates.

    2.As records stand now, Sanskrit and Tamil seem to be oldest of the languages of India.

    3.The dates od Sanskrit and Tamil stretch far back in time and it is difficult to say which one wzs earlier,for, A million year old site Athirambakkam,near Chennai,Tamil Nadu,India had an advanced Tamil civilization znd this civilization quotes Vedas.

    And Vedas refer Tamil/Tamils.

    And recent excavations of Poompuhar,Tamil Nadu dates the city 11,000 Year ago!

    Yet the Tamil is assigned a date of around,3000 BC!

    The researches into Lemuria/Kumari Kandam, the home of Tamils indicate Kumari Kandam around 200,000 years ago!

    At worst ,you can date Tamil,at 20,000 years ago.

    4.Telugu.

    Telugu is dated around  1500 BC.

    But people forget Godavari is one of the ancient rivers of India and Godavari civilization was also a cradle of civilization.

    Telugu is mentioned in Ramayana.

    And Tamil Sangam literature refers to Telugu.

    And Tamil Sangam is dated,by the western orientalists at 3000 BC.

    So even by their reckoning Telugu should be at least 3000 years old.

    In fact,based on Indian texts,it is at least 5000 years old.

    5.Kannada is said to be 2500 years old.

    Again Tamil texts refer Kannada and Ramayana refers to the area,Kishkinda,Rama’s sister was married to Rishyashrunga from Sringeri,Karnataka.

    So Kannada can be dated at least 5000 years ago.

    9.Bengali,Marathi,Gujarati, and other languages of regions around Vindhyas and beyond also date back to at least 5000 years.

    They evolved from Prakrit,Brahmi,Sanskrit,which are dated at 5000 years ago or earlier.

    The differnces among these languages is due to the fact that they descended from Brahmi,which had 11 types.

    All the regions in India are described by Valmiki in his Ramayana and Vyasa also refers them in Mahabharata.

    And all the eighteen puranas speak of all these areas and dialects.

    So, none of the Indian Languages are younger than 5000 years.

    The plethora of Languages in India is mind-boggling.

    22 Official languages (some estimate to be 25) and 720 Dialects (some estimate 2000)!

    ([http://translation-blog.trustedtranslations.com/india-the-country-with-more-than-2000-dialects-2011-10-18.html]

    [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent)]

    The unraveling of the History of these languages is very difficult and calls for an understanding of the Cultural undercurrent running through all these languages.

    Regions may vary, languages and dialects may vary, but the ethos of Sanatana Dharma straddles them like a colossus, albeit with slight modifications as in Tamil, though the core remains the same.

    Looking through the prism of Foreign Culture would obfuscate the study for to classify and assign them dates without taking Sanatana Dharma into account will result in arriving at incorrect conclusions.

    There, again, we have the myth, now debunked Theory of Aryan Invasion.

    This helped the Invaders to divide the country and enabled them to rule India.

    So, a grand design was worked out.

    Take Indian languages, without taking Sanatana Dharma into account, the underlying cultural unity among these languages, refer and link these languages to countries, which are now independent of India, like Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, forgetting the fact that Bharatavarsha extended throughout the globe, some 5000 years ago.

    (Please read my articles on the spread and Sanatana Dharma, under ‘Hinduism’ or google the country plus Sanatana Dharma +ramanan 50.)

    So for the common man, the message was that,

    There are two major Languages, Sanskrit and Tamil,

    The other languages were derived out of either of these or a mixture of two.

    This makes the job of misinformation easier.

    One, you can divide people on the basis of Language, and another, you can date individual languages as you please, meaning assign them much later dates!

    What are the facts when one takes the parameters of Sanatana Dharma, its pervasive nature throughout the world, and an independent analysis of each language in conjunction with Sanatana Dharma and the history of a language based on its history and its Dialects?

    1. There, my research over eight years on Sanatana Dharma, its presence throughout the world civilizations, my study of Indian languages’ History, compel me to arrive at different sets of facts on Indian languages and their dates.
    2. As records stand now, Sanskrit and Tamil seem to be the oldest of the languages of India.
    3. The dates of Sanskrit and Tamil stretch far back in time, and it is difficult to say which one was earlier, for, a million-year-old site Athirambakkam, near Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India had an advanced Tamil civilization and this civilization quotes Vedas.

    And Vedas refer Tamil/Tamils.

    And recent excavations of Poompuhar, Tamil Nadu, dates the city 11,000 Years ago!

    Yet Tamil is assigned a date of around 3000 BC!

    The researches into Lemuria/Kumari Kandam, the home of Tamils, indicate Kumari Kandam around 200,000 years ago!

    At worst, you can date Tamil at 20,000 years ago.

    1. Telugu.

    Telugu is dated around 1500 BC.

    But people forget Godavari is one of the ancient rivers of India, and the Godavari civilization was also a cradle of civilization.

    Telugu is mentioned in Ramayana.

    And Tamil Sangam literature refers to Telugu.

    And the Tamil Sangam is dated, by the western orientalists, at 3000 BC.

    So even by their reckoning, Telugu should be at least 3000 years old.

    In fact, based on Indian texts, it is at least 5000 years old.

    1. Kannada is said to be 2500 years old.

    Again Tamil texts refer Kannada and Ramayana refers to the area, Kishkinda, Rama’s sister was married to Rishyashrunga from Sringeri, Karnataka.

    So Kannada can be dated at least 5000 years ago.

    1. Bengali, Marathi, Gujarati, and other languages of regions around Vindhyas and beyond also date back to at least 5000 years because they evolved from Prakrit, Brahmi, Sanskrit, which are dated at 5000 years ago or earlier.

    The differences among these languages are due to the fact that they descended from Brahmi, which had 11 types.

    All the regions in India are described by Valmiki in his Ramayana, and Vyasa also refers to them in Mahabharata.

    And all the eighteen Puranas speak of all these areas and dialects.

    So, none of the Indian Languages are younger than 5000 years.

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  • Were The Vedic People Literate

    One of the strengths of Sanatana Dharma is its Oral tradition of transmitting texts, both Philosophical and Scientific.

    But the sheer volume defies imagination.

    brah11
    Ancient scripts, Origin

    “With Thirty Million  Manuscripts existing even today,Sanskrit is the oldest Language of the world and the Rig Veda which is in Sanskrit is the oldest literature of the world”

    .Thirty Million Manuscripts Seven Hundred Poetic Meters  Sanskrit

    Is it possible for any race to transmit such a large volume only by Oral tradition?

    Could the people of Ancient India, of Sanatana Dharma, Bharatvarsha Read and Write?

    Western Scholars think it s possible and declare that the ancient Indians had Super Memories!

    phrase_sanskrit
    Evolution of South Asian Scripts.

    For this is convenient to deny at a later stage and declare that such a feat is impossible and hence the such oral traditions are a myth and hence can be dismissed as interpolations and a latest date may be assigned to them

    The fact that one finds Sanskrit Brahmi, and Tamil Brahmi were found in Indus Valley civilizations..

    This at the latest is dated at 3000 to 5000 BC

    And the finding of Kannada Brahmi in Karnataka.

    And Tamil Sangam Literature speaks of the Vedas, its texts.

    Consider the Mathematical , Biological, Astronomy,Genetics, texts which involve writing of the highest order.

    Imagine building, for example,The Thanjavur Big Temple or any other Temples and structures which could not  have been built with ot written calculations and drawings

    And,

    ‘western scholars of Indology said:
    “Entire absense of writing, reading, paper, or pen in vedas, or during Brahamana period and complete silence in Sutra period(When art of writing was beginning to be known), the whole Literature of India was preserved in oral tradition only”

    Weber who wants to bring all history to later than Biblical period admits:
    “Europe has 10,000 sanskrit texts and considering that we have tens of thousands which the parsimony of karma has hithherto withheld form Museums and libraries of Europe, what a memory must have been their!.”

    Indian super Memory
    The Immemorial practice with students of sanskrit literature has been to commit to memory the various subjects of their study and this practice of oral tradition has preserved the ancient Vedic texts. This fact has led Western Indology scholars to surmise that writing was unknown in the earliest period of Indian Civilization and that the later forms of the alphabet were not of pure Indian growth.

    So According to these Western Indology Scholars, Indians have Super Human Memory. By Which they can not only memorize scores of documents, but they can also transmit through generations. Wow!, Who said science fiction is 20th century Stuff.

    We are looking at this question. Did writing existed prior to Mauryas?

    Panini
    Panini is best known grammarian of India. Muller says that there is no single term in the panini terminology which presupposes the existence of writing. So we go to find out.

    Panini almost singlehandendly brought together the classical sanskrit grammer. He mentions Grantha the equivalent for written or bound book in the later days in India. For Max Muller Granta mean simply a composition, which is handed down the generation by oral tradition. In short Panini is illiterate and somehow he produced one of the most eloborate and scientific set grammer ever known to mankind till today.Remember Panini has given 3996 rules for Classical Sanskrit Grammar.

    Writing in Literature
    Classical Sanskrit Literature
    The direct reference to writing classical sanskrit according to Indologists in literature are found to be in the Dharmasutra of Vasistha, which Dr.Buhler thinks, was composed around 8th century BC. Some scholars will assign this work 4th century BC as well.Astadhyayi of panini contains such compounds as Lipikara and Libikara, which evidently mean writer. The date of panini is not fixed, prof.Goldstucker puts him 8th century BC, others put him in 4 the century BC. The Vedic works contain technical terms like aksara, kanda, patala, grantha and the like, which is clear indication of writing. Of course Indology scholars wont accept them.

    Buddhist age
    There are quite a large number of passages in the SriLanka’s Tipitaka, which bear witness to an acquaintance with writing and to its extensive use.

    At the time when Buddhist cannons were composed. Lekha and Lekhaka are mentioned in the Bhikkhu pacittiya and Bhikkhuni pacittiya.

    In the Jatakaas, constant meniton is made of letters being written. The Jatakas know of proclamations.

    Epic Age
    Epics contains archaic expressions such as likh, Lekha, Lakhaka, Lekhana but not lipi, which some scholars think is foriegn orgin. So Writing was known in Epic Age.

    Vedic Literature
    We find clear evidence in wide spread use of writing in the vedic period. Written documents are mentioned as legal documents.

    Scripts
    Brahmi
    The earliest surviving written record other than Indus script is Piprawa vase inscription discovered by Colonel Claxton peppe. This Inscription is a prakrit before the prakrits of magadhi or sourasheni developed, so differently interpreted. This is dated to early part of 5th century BC.

    Next comes Sohaura Copper plate , which Dr.Smith puts before Ashoka by 50 years.

    The Inscriptions of Ashoka is all over India. This shows that Writing was well used in Royal courts and the writting was well understood by common people.

    Dr.Weber came with view that Brahmi is borrowed from South Arab tribe. But this has been dismissed by Dr. Buhler.

    Buhler Identified certain Brahmi letters were identical to 9th-7th BC century Inscriptions found in Assyria. One third of 23 Alphabets are identical to Brahmi letters. This Indologists suggestions that the Brahmi letters were derived from these letters from all Indology scholars including Buhler. But we have to note that the tribes in question are belonging belonging to Indian Tribe. This script traveled from India to Middle east.

    Jain Stupa unearthed at the Kankali Tila site of Mathura regarded by Vincent Simith as the oldest known stupa then (Before Indus valley sites were discovered). Smith dated it to be 600 BC for erection. Dr.Fuhrer who supervised the excavation found out that it contained a inscription Deva Stupa in a script, so old that it was forgotten.

    Indus Script
    Indus Script has 250-500 characters. Some of the Seals seems to be Bilingual with Indus script next to the symbols. Seeming symbols to be for traders from other languages. So Indus valley is literate culture.”

    So the Ancient Indians knew Reading and writing and transmitted Vedic Texts orally to ensure that they are not destroyed.

    Citation and reference..

    http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/11/was-ancient-india-literate-super-human.html

    Image of ancient scripts Credit.

    http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/evolalpha.html

    http://www.ancientscripts.com/brahmi.html

  • Which Is Older Kannada Or Tamil

    When one tries to trace the real history of India, one has to tread carefully and doubly careful in the use of terms about the various ancient Kingdoms and languages of India.

    Unlike the other countries of the world our history goes back to Millions of years.

    Sathavahanas Dynasty.jpg Sathavahana Dynasty LLocation. Image credit. “SatavahanaMap”. Licensed under Public Domain via Commons – https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SatavahanaMap.jpg#/media/File:SatavahanaMap.jpg

    While unravelling them,based on Archeology, references in the Indian Epics,Puranas and Indian literature, one finds it nearly impossible to determine which preced the other, say for instance Tami or Kannada.

    I have, in my article, Karnataka 2 Million years Old Rama’s Brother in law in Karnataka, I had inadvertently slipped a word that,

    ‘before the advent of the Sathavahanas, Karnataka was ruled by North Indian Kings and Tamil Kings”

    I received a comment,, which I am reproducing below.

    “Well Mr. Ramanan, with due regards to your article, there is no history to suggest that Karnataka was ruled by Tamil rulers, before Satavahanas. Although the two languages owe a lot to Brahmi script and according to latest findings, Kannada speaking population was widely spread in south, central, and deccan India. Professor Iravatham mahadevan’s recent findings show that Tamil borrowed from old Kannada and not the other way round.
    The impact of kingdoms of Karnataka origin have been felt over other parts of India also. The Chindaka Nagas of central India, Gangas of Kalinga (Odisha),[1] Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta,[2] Chalukyas of Vengi,[3] Yadava Dynasty of Devagiri were all of Kannada origin[4] who later took to encouraging local languages. The Senas of Bengal, the Solankis of Gujarat etc.’

    In such a situation, I should have simple left saying nothing at all.

    For the atmosphere in India has been so vitiated on the basis of langauge and territories that even a slight mention, raises one’s hackles.

    The Divide and Rule Policy started by the British about 300 years ago still lingers , currently being fueled by the politicians who have no idea of our Past History and our traditions.

    Having written about the early histories of Tamil in detail and a couple of Posts on the antiquity of Kannada,I would like to tread carefully, though evidence is available on these subjects.

    When I take up the ancient history of the other areas, bengal, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Central India, there might me surprises in store.

    I will be refrained in my choice of description as my site might be used to wrangle over which langauge or Kings were  more ancient.

    The purpose of my Blog is to bring out the history and achievements of Sanatana Dharma, which has been distorted and misinformation had been spread about it.

    By writing on the subjects I have mentioned here, I might be sidetracked.

    One thing is certain.

    We have a hoary past with Sanskrit and Sanatana Dharma as the Pillars.

    Other languages like Tamil, Kannada have a hand in it, not to forget Telugu,the Godavari Valley has a rich ,ancient History.

    While much evidence has been found on Tamil, about its antiquity relatively it is less in the other languages.

    Another point is that the Tamil Kingdom was located in Lemuria.

    They seem to have developed a culture on their own, they were also followers of Sanatana Dharma.

    History of Karanataka and Tamil are gleaned only from respective literaray works of these languages.

    For Karnataka, the past before Chandra Gupta Maurya is hazy, while Tamil has literary references in the form of Sangam literature.

    Karnataka was not called as such, thanks to linguistic division of states, and it was under the Mauryan Empire.

    And Chanra Gupra Mauraya breathed his last near Sravanabelagola in 230 BC.

    However after the death of Chandra Gupta, Karnataka resisted the Mauryan domination.

    The Tamils were allies of Chandra Gupta .

    The Sathavahanas , the first recorded Dynasty,rose after Chandra Gupta.

    Interesting point is that the Sathavahanas were ruling from Amravathi, , AP, now Capital of Andhra!

    ‘The Sātavāhana Empire was an Indian dynasty based from Dharanikota and Amaravati in Andhra Pradesh as well as Junnar(Pune) and Prathisthan (Paithan) in Maharashtra.The territory of the empire covered much of India from 230 BCE onward. Although there is some controversy about when the dynasty came to an end, the most liberal estimates suggest that it lasted about 450 years, until around 220 CE. The Satavahanas are credited for establishing peace in the country, resisting the onslaught of foreigners after the decline of the Mauryan Empire.’

    The Sātavāhanas were vassals to the Mauryan dynasty until the decline of the latter. They are known for their patronage ofHinduism. The Sātavāhanas were early issuers of Indian state coinage struck with images of their rulers. They formed a cultural bridge and played a vital role in trade and the transfer of ideas and culture to and from the Indo-Gangetic Plain to the southern tip of India.

    They had to compete with the Shungas and then the Kanvas of Magadha to establish their rule. Later, they played a crucial role to protect a huge part of India against foreign invaders like the Sakas, Yavanas and Pahlavas. In particular their struggles with theWestern Kshatrapas went on for a long time. The great rulers of the Satavahana Dynasty Gautamiputra Satakarni and Sri Yajna Sātakarni were able to defeat the foreign invaders like the Western Kshatrapas and stop their expansion. In the 3rd century CE the empire was split into smaller states. According to ancient Sangam literature the Satavahana rulers were allied with the Tamilrulers of the Chera dynasty, Chola dynasty and Pandyan Dynasty to defeat the foreign invaders like the Scythians…

    ‘The name Karnataka is derived from “Karunadu” which means Loftyland (High plateau), derived from the community’s location on the Deccan Plain. The name can also mean “Land of black soil” (Kari – Black; Nadu – Area or Region) in Kannada. The history of Karnataka goes back to epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharatha”. The capital of “vaali” and “Sugriva” of the epic, Ramayana, is said to be Hampi. Karnataka finds its mention in Mahabharatha in the form of “Karnata Desha”. In olden times the region was also called “Kuntala Rajya”.[1] Karnataka was also part of the Dakshinapatha (southern region) which finds its mention in many Indian epics. Vatapi, associated with sage Agastya is obviously Badami in Bijapur district.[2] Karnataka is situated on the western edge of theDeccan plateau and has for its neighbours Maharashtra and Goa on the north, Andhra Pradesh on east, Tamil Nadu and Kerala on the south. On the west it opens out on the Arabian sea.’

    In the case of Tamils, Tamil Kings were referred to during the Damayanthi Swayamvara, Sita and Draupadi Swayamvara apart from the fact that Lord Krishna married  Pandyan Princess, had a daughter Pandiah, Parashuarama, Arjuna and Sahadeva had been visiting Tamil areas.

    Lord Krishna was an attendee to the Tamil Sangam.

    Please refer my post on these subjects.

    ‘The Pandyas were one of the three ancient Tamil dynasties (Chola and Chera being the other two) who ruled the Tamil country from pre-historic times until the end of the 15th century. They ruled initially from Korkai, a sea port on the southernmost tip of the Indian peninsula, and in later times moved to Madurai. Pandyas are mentioned inSangam Literature (c. 100 – 200 CE) as well as by Greek and Roman sources during this period.

    Archeological finds.

    A Million year old site belonging to advanced Tamil Civilization has been found in Chennai.

    We also have a ver ancient site belonging to Prehistoric times in Karnataka.

    And we have the Tamil Brahmi script found in Harappa. and Indus Valley.

     

    ‘Kaar Nadu means…Kaar, in Tamil, means regions rich with rainfall collecting mountains and associated regions and Nadu means country…Tamil word is used to refer a region with a particular geographic location…I have asked to my Kannada friends to find the meaning in Kannada language – they have few explanations which are vague for example, some Kannada language speakers think Kar (black) coloured soil region is referred as Kaarnataka – if that is true Karnataka should be less than 20% of the land it has now, because only 15% of the region has black soil in the pesent day state of Karnataka. In ancient Tamil kingdoms the land and the people were classified based on Geography that relate to their specific rich lifestyle and occupation. There are several ancient Tamil literature referring to Tulu naadu, kodagu nadu and kaaarnadu.
    The discovery of a Neolithic stone celt, a hand-held axe, with the Indus script on it at Sembian-Kandiyur in Tamil Nadu is, according to Iravatham Mahadevan, “a major discovery because for the first time a text in the Indus script has been found in the State on a datable artefact, which is a polished neolithic celt.” He added: “This confirms that the Neolithic people of Tamil Nadu shared the same language family of the Harappan group, which can only be Dravidian. The discovery provides the first evidence that the Neolithic people of the Tamil country spoke a Dravidian language.” Mr. Mahadevan, an eminent expert on the subject, estimated the date of the artefact with the Indus script between 2000 B.C. and 1500 B.C’

    • A broken storage jar with inscriptions in Tamil Brahmi script in Quseir-al-Qadim, (Leukos Limen) Egypt, 1st century BCE. Two earlier Tamil Brahmi inscription discoveries at the same site, 1st century CE.]The inscriped text is “பானை ஒறி” (paanai oRi) which means ‘pot suspended in a rope net’.
    • An inscribed amphora fragment in Tamil at the ancient Ptolemic–Roman settlement of Berenice Troglodytica, Egypt, 1st century BCE- 1st century CE.
    • Tamil-Brahmi inscription on pottery found in Phu Khao Thong,Thailand, 2nd century CE. Touchstone (uraikal) engraved in Tamil in the Tamil-Brahmi script at Khuan Luk Pat, 3rd-4th century CE.
    • Potsherds with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions found in Poonagari, Jaffna, 2nd century BCE.
    • Black and red ware potsherd with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in Ucchapanai, Kandarodai, Jaffna, 3rd century BCE.
    • Tamil Brahmi inscriptions on a pot rim at Pattanam, central Kerala, 2nd century CE.
    • Four Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions, 3rd century CE, found on Edakal cave, Ambukuthi hill, Kerala. One contained the word ‘Chera’ (‘kadummipudha chera’), the earliest inscriptional evidence of the dynasty Chera.
    • Potsherd with Tamil-Brahmi script found in Oman. The script reads “nantai kiran” and it can be dated to the 1st century CE.
    • A fragment of black and red ware flat dish inscribed in Tamil in theTamil Brahmi script excavated at the earliest layer in southern eastern town of Tissamaharama in Sri Lanka. It is dated to approximately 200 BC by German scholars who undertook the excavation.
    • Tamil Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found at Kodumanal, Chennimalai near Erode
    • Tamil-Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found at Porunthal site is located 12 km South West of Palani
    • Tamil-Brahmi script found on Tirupparankundram hill, Madurai it read as “Muu-na-ka-ra” and “Muu-ca-ka-ti, 1st century BCE.
    • Fifth ‘hero’ stone found with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions at Porpanakkottai
    • Tamil-Brahmi script dating back to the 3rd century BCE near Thenur, Madurai. Script is written in gold bar.
    • Tamil-Brahmi script dated to the 3rd century AD found preserved in laterite in Karadukka in Kasaragod district, Kerala

    Which is Old, Kannada or Tamil

    Pre-old Kannada (or Purava HaleGannada) was the language of Banavasi in the early Common Era, theSatavahana and Kadamba periods and hence has a history of over 2000 years.The Ashoka rock edict found at Brahmagiri (dated to 230 BC) has been suggested to contain words in identifiable Kannada.

    A possibly more definite reference to Kannada is found in the ‘Charition mime’ of the 1st or 2nd century AD. The farce, written by an unknown author was discovered in the early 20th century at Oxyrynchus in Egypt. The play is concerned with a Greek lady named Charition who has been stranded on the coast of a country bordering the Indian Ocean. The king of this region, and his countrymen, sometimes use their own language, and the sentences they spoke include Koncha madhu patrakke haki (lit having poured a little wine into the cup separately) and paanam beretti katti madhuvam ber ettuvenu (lit having taken up the cup separately and having covered it, I shall take wine separately). The language employed in the papyrus indicates that the play is set in one of the numerous small ports on the western coast of India, between Karwar andMangalore’

    • 150,000-100,000 BCE – Evidence for presence of Hominins with Acheulean technology in north Tamil Nadu.
    • c. 30,000 BCE-Paleolithic industries in north Tamil Nadu
    • c. 8000–3000 BCE-Pre-pottery microlithic industries
    • c. 3000–1000 BCE-Neolithic and fine microlithic industries

    Pre-Sangam period

    • c. 1000–300 BCE-Megalithic age
    • c. 600 BCE-Tamil-Brahmi prevalent as the Tamil script
    • c. 300 BCE- Greek ethnographer Megasthenes visits Pandyan capitol Madurai.,
    • c. 250 BCE-Asoka’s inscription recording the four kingdoms (Chera, Cholas, Pandya and Satyaputra) of the ancient Tamil country
    • c. 200 BCE-Elara, a Tamil prince and contemporary of Dutte Gamini, rules Lanka

    Sangam age

    • c. 200 BCE-200 CE-Sangam age during which books of Sangam Literature are created
    • c. 150 BCE-Kharavela of Kalinga records his conquest of a federation of Tamil kings in his Hathigumpha inscription [10]
    • c. 13– Greek historian Nicolaus of Damascus met an ambassador sent by Pandyan King to Caesar Augustus, Strabo XV.1-73.
    • c. 1-100 – The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea gives a detailed description of early Chera and Pandya kingdom and mentions Tamil country as ‘Damirica’
    • c. 77 and 140 Greco-Roman writers Pliny the Elder and Ptolemy mention Madurai ruled by Pandyan.
    • Considering he vast stretches of time involved, it is difficult to determine which influenced the other, Tamil or Kannada,despite fanatics claiming one way or the other.

    In my opinion,as I said to Bharathitheertha Swami of Sringeri Peeta, our Father Tongue is Sanskrit mother tongue based of geographical location and it is best we enjoy these languages and follow Sanatana Dharma.

    Squabbles are for the Immature.

    I am yet to study Telugu and Godavari Valley.

    I am sure more surprises will be in store.

    Citation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satavahana_dynasty

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_India

    https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-oldest-language-between-Kannada-and-Tamil-What-is-the-proof

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Tamil_history

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  • Three Hundred Twenty Five Recognised Languages India

    India, we all know, is a land of diversity.

    Look at the number of languages.

    It is curiousthat we have taken English and French into our fold!

     

    Agaria,

    Ahirani,

    Aimol,

    Aiton,

    Anal,

    Andamanese,

    Some Languages of India, Scripts.jpg Some Languages of India, Scripts.

    Angani,

    Angika,

    Ao,

    Apatani,

    Arabic,

    Armenian,

    Ashing,

    Assamese,

    Asuri,

    Awadhi,

    Badaga,

    Baghelkhandi,

    Bagri,

    Baigani,

    Bajania,

    Balti,

    Bangni,

    Banjari,

    Basturia,

    Bauria,

    Bawm,

    Boli,

    Bengali,

    Bhanja- bhumia,

    Bantu,

    Bharmauri,

    Bhairi,

    Bhili,

    Bhojpuri,

    Bhotia,

    Bhuiya,

    Bhumij,

    Bhunjia,

    Biate,

    Bilaspuri,

    Birhor,

    Birjia,

    Bishnupriya,

    Bodo,

    Bokar,

    Bondo,

    bori,

    Braj Bhasha,

    Brijlal,

    Bugun,

    Bundelkhandi,

    Burmese,

    Bushari,

    Chakhesang,

    Chakma,

    Chambilai,

    Chameali,

    Chang,

    Changpa,

    Chattisgarhi,

    Chikari,

    Chinali,

    Chiru,

    Chote,

    Churasi,

    Dalu,

    Deori,

    Dhanki,

    Dhimal,

    Dhodia,

    Dhundhari,

    Didayi,

    Dimasa,

    Dingal,

    Dogri,

    Dommari,

    Droskhat/Dokpa,

    Duhlian-Twang,

    English, French, Gadaba, Gadiali, Gallong, Gameti, Gamit, Gangte, Garasia, Garhwali, Garo, Giarahi, Gondi, Gujarati, Gujjari, Gurung, Gutob, Hajong, Halam, Halbi, Harauti, Haryanavi, Hebrew, Himachali, Hindi, Hinduri, Hindusthani, Hmar, Ho, Hrusso, Hualngo,Irula, Jabalpuri, Jangali, Jarawa, Jaunsari, Juang, Kabui, Kachanga, Kachari, Kachchi, Kadar, Kagati, Kakbarak, Kanashi, Kangri, Kannada, Karbi, Karen, Karko, Kashmiri, Kathiawari, Khadiboli, Khaka, Khamba, Khampa, Khampti, Khampti-shan, Kharia, Khasi, Khaskura, Khatri, Kherwari, Khiangan, Khorusti, Khotta, Kinnauri, Kiradi, Kisan, Koch, Kodagu, Koi, Koireng, Kokni, Kolami, Kom, Komkar, Konda, Konicha, Konkani, Konyak, Koracha, Koraga, Korava, Korku, Korwa, Kota, Kotwalia, Kudmali, Kui, Kuki, Kulvi, Kumaoni, Kunbi, Kurukh, Kuvi, Ladakhi, Lahauli, Laihawlh, Lakher (Mara), Lalung,Lambani, Lamgang, Laotian, Laria, Lepcha, Limbu, Lisu, Lodha, Lotha, Lushai, Mag, Magahi, Magarkura, Mahal, Maithili, Majhi, Makrani, Malankudi, Malayalam, Malhar, Malto, Malvi, Manchat, Mandiali, Mangari, Mao, Maram, Marathi, Maria, Maring, Marwari, Mavchi, Meitei, Memba, Mewari, Mewati, Milang, Minyong, Miri, Mishing, Mishmi, Mizo, Monpa, Monsang, Moyon, Muduga, Multani, Mundari, Na, Nagari, Nagpuri, Naikadi, Naiki, Nati, Nepali, Nicobarese, Nimari, Nishi, Nocte, Odki, Onge, Oriya, Padam, Pahari, Paharia, Palilibo, Paite, Panchpargania, Pang, Pangi, Pangwali, Parimu, Parji, Paschima, Pasi, Pashto, Pawri, Pengo, Persian, Phom, Pochury, Punchi, Punjabi, Rai (Raikhura), Rajasthani, Ralte, Ramo, Rathi, Rengma, Riang, Sadri, Sajalong, Sambalpuri, Sangtam, Sansi, Santali, Sadra, Saraji, Sarhodi, Saurashtri, Sema, Sentinelese, Shekhawati, Sherdukpen, Sherpa, Shimong, Shina, Shompen, Sikligar, Sindhi, Singpo, Siraji, Sirmauri, Soliga, Sulung, Surajpuri,Tagin, Tai, Tamang, Tamil,Tangam, Tangkhul, Tangsa, Tataotrong, Telugu, Thado, Thar, Tharu, Tibetan, Toda, Toto, Tulu, Urdu, Vaiphei, Varli, Wagri, Wancho, Yereva, Yerukula, Yimchungre, Zakring (Meyer), Zeliang, Zemi, Zou.

    The following information is derived from DM Silveira‘s INDIA BOOK 1994-95, page 61, ISBN 81-900218-2-6 published by Classic Publishers Pvt. Ltd., Goa, India.

    The original author of this was Mr. Gurnek Singh

    http://www.sanyal.com/india/indlang.html

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  • Kannadigas From Yadava Tribe Agastya,Kapila.Tamil

    The History of Sanatana Dharma is very deep and extensive.To have an idea of what it was one has to know Sanskrit, Hinduism and the Indian Regional languages.

    I am handicapped in this respect in that I am conversant only in two languages,Sanskrit and Tamil, though I can speak Kannada.

    Amriteswara temple, Karnataka.jpg Amriteswara temple, Karnataka.

    If I know the other languages I might be able to get a better idea of the Sanatana Dharma for it was spread throughout the world and embedded deeply in all the regions of India.

    Available records speak of Pali, Sanskrit and Tamil as the oldest.

    Scholars from the other regional languages may send in their information on this,

    One request is that this site is for Sanatana Dharam and not a ground for Linguistic war for that is the shortest cut to destroying Sanatana Dharama.

    To me Sanskrit is my Father Tongue and Tamil Mother tongue.

    This, I hope, might apply to all of us in various regions of India, the Mother Tongue being the one determined by region in which one is born or picks up from his mother.

    Earliest historical evidence to Kanndigas is found in Brahmagiri , Karnataka.

    Brahmagiri is an archaeological site located in the Chitradurga district of the state of Karnataka, India. Legend has it that this is the site where age Gautama Maharishi (also spelt Gauthama Maharshi) and his wife Ahalya lived. He was one among seven noted Hindu saints (Saptharshi mandalam). This site was first explored by Benjamin L. Rice in 1891, who discovered rock edicts of Emperor Ashoka here. These rock edicts indicated that the locality was termed as Isila and denoted the southernmost extent of the Mauryan empire.[1][2] The Brahmagiri site is a granite outcrop elevated about 180 m. above the surrounding plains and measures around 500 m east-west and 100 m north-south. It is well known for the large number of megalithic monuments that have been found here.The earliest settlement found here has been dated to at least the 2nd millennium BC

    As this date is 2 BC I searched for earlier connections with Sanatana Dharama.

    References are found in the Tamil Classics on this and in Legends.

    Tamil Purananuru, says the people of Karnataka were from the Yadavas of  Dwaraka.

    Now there are references in the Puranas of seven Dwarakas.

    This reference about Kannadigas probably refers to the second Dwaraka, when the tribes left for the middle east and elsewhere because of Flood.

    One group led by Agastya and Kapila, who compiled Purananuru settled in Karnataka, on the banks of Kaveri River.

    Sangam Tamil poets composed over 2000 poems. Purananuru is an encyclopaedia of Tamil culture. It has got less than 400 verses. Purananuru verse 201 was composed by Kapilar two thousand years ago. This is a very important verse in Purananuru. It throws much light on early Indian History. Kapilar talks about 49th generation of Irungovel. Famous Tamil Commentator Nachinarkiniyar , who lived several hundred years ago, gave a very interesting story about this verse.

    Nachinarkiniyar said that Agastya brought 12 tribes from Dwaraka ruled by Lord Krishna. Another city in the name of Dwaraka was founded in Karnataka (Mysore) state in the twelfth century. There is an interesting story about how and who founded this city. Hoychalas were the kings who ruled from this city. Hoychala is translated into Tamil asPulikadimal which is found in verse 201.

    Chala was a king belonging to Yadu dynasty. While he was hunting in the Western Ghats, he saw a hare heroically fighting with a tiger. This made him to think that this place must have some special importance. When he followed the fighting tiger and hare, an ascetic who was doing penance ordered king Chala to kill the tiger. The ascetic’s order in Sanskrit was “Hatham Hoy Chala”. So from that day on wards the king and his descendants were called Hoychalas. If the verse 201 refers to this anecdote then it must have happened 2000 years ago.

    This is reinforced by the Temples dedicated to Hindu Gods by the Hoysalas in Karnataka

    More to follow on this.

    http://tamilandvedas.com/2012/04/04/karnataka-indus-valley-connection/

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