Ramanisblog

Tag: Neanderthal

  • Indian Brahmin Migration To Europe 8000 Years DNA Proof

    I have been trying to fathom the mystery of Human migration in the world.

    There are descriptions of Great Flood in almost all the mythologies,Jewish, Christian, Mayan,Incas, Sumerian.

    But the Great Floods do not get such detailed references anywhere as in Tamil Classics belonging to Tamil Sangam Era, which is erroneously dated around 3 BC.

    The internal evidence in the Texts, external references found in world literature, Vedic Texts and Geology assigns an earlier date.

    There is a study which states that the Tamils were very much an advanced civilisation around 74,000 years ago.

    Please refer my Post.

    And there is site reflecting Tamil Culture, 1 Million year old, in Pallavaram Cheanni, Tamil Nadu, India.

    Tamil quotes the Vedas and they quote Tamil.

    Read my Post on this.

    So it is well nigh impossible to assign exact dates for these two or which precedes the other because of the Time frame involved, on the available evidence now.

    Dating of these are verified by Astronomy, Astro-archeology and of course by Anthropology,Cultural,Linguistic similarities and Archeology.

    Yet another source is Genome Study, the Study of Genes.

    By studying  and comparing the Genes of the present population with the ancient skeletons found around the world, one can arrive at a conclusion.

    When one looks at Human population in the Europe, one finds that it seems to start abruptly, with the statement that People migrated from Asia.

    From where in Asia and Why?

    The Western science has been silent till now.

    Now research of DNA has come a long way and they prove that the migration took place from India, then called Bharatavarsha.

    Reference in The Bhagavatha Purana states that the ancestor of Lord Rama, Satyavrata Manu migrated from the South of Vindhya Mountains to Ayodhya and Manu’ son Ikshvaku founded the Ikshvaku Dynasty.

    Please read my Post, Rama’s ancestor Dravida, migrated from South.

    At the same time Shiva with his son Ganesha moved westwards  through Middle East ,Europe,Africa,South America, North America, Central America, Russia to Arctic where the Rig Veda was composed.

    Then they returned to India through the Khyber Pass and this event has been taken as Aryan Invasion of India.

    Please read my Posts on each point.

    Now that the far Eastern and American civilizations are traced to Santana Dharma, it is evident that the people of the far east( in relation to the west, here they mean the now Middle east), it is the Sanatana Dharma Tribes which migrated to these places.

    Read my Post Vedic Tribes.

    The Reports.

    Human Migration, In and Out of India.jpg Human Migration, In and Out of India.

    * I have provided this Map to inform readers of the other view that the initial Migration to India was from Africa.I disagree with this view.Check My Posts on this.

    A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans than are individuals from lower castes, whose genetic profiles are closer to those of Asians.

    The study compared genetic markers—located on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA—between 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased.

    The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research.

    The caste system, defined in ancient Sanskrit texts, determines a person’s rank in society: The Brahmin, who were traditionally priests and scholars, held the highest rank in Hindu society. Warriors and rulers made up the Kshatriya who were the next in line to the Brahmin. Merchants, traders, farmers, and artisans were the third caste called the Vysya. The Shudra were the fourth rank and consisted of laborers. Because of strict rules forbidding marriage between men and women of different castes, these four classes remained distinct for thousands of years.

    Bamshad’s team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. The Y chromosomes from the lower castes bore more similarities to the Asian Y chromosome. The mitochondrial DNA showed the same pattern.

    The authors believe their results support the notion that Europeans who migrated into India between 3,000 and 8,000 years ago may have merged with or imposed their social structure on the native northern Indians and placed themselves into the highest castes.

    Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. This suggests that the Europeans who entered India were predominantly male.

    . . .

    .

    That required developing new computational methods for genetic analysis. “Figuring out how these populations are related is extremely hard,” Reich says. “There’s a lot that happened in Europe in the last 8,000 years, and this history acts like a veil, making it difficult to discern what happened at the beginning of this period. We had to find statistics that were able to tell us what happened deep in the past without getting confused by 8,000 years of intervening history, when massive and important events occurred.”

    “What we find is unambiguous evidence that people in Europe today have all three of these ancestries: early European farmers who brought agriculture to Europe, the indigenous hunter-gatherers who were in Europe prior to 8,000 years ago, and these ancient north Eurasians,” Reich says. Further analyses showed that describing present-day Europeans as a mixture of the three populations is a good fit for most, although not all, populations.

    When the study began, the ancient north Eurasian population was a “ghost population”—identified based on genetic patterns without any ancient DNA. But in 2013, another group analyzed DNA from two skeletons found in Siberia, one from 24,000 years ago and one from 17,000 years ago, and found that it shared genetic similarities with Europeans and North Americans. The ghost, Reich says, had been found.

    Although DNA from ancient north Eurasians is present in nearly all modern Europeans, Reich’s team did not find it in their ancient hunter-gatherers or the ancient farmers. That means the north Eurasian line of ancestry was introduced into Europe after agriculture had been established, a scenario most archaeologists had thought unlikely.

    “We have this amazing observation that only two ancestries are represented among the first farmers, from about 7,000 to 5,000 years ago. And then suddenly everybody today has ancient north Eurasian ancestry,” Reich says. “So there must have been a later movement of this ancestry into Europe.”

    Anthropologists have long thought that densely settled populations would be resistant to the arrival of new groups. “But this is hard evidence that exactly such a major migration occurred,” Reich says. “It’s very important because it’s a major contributor to Europeans today.” The time of the ancient north Eurasians’ arrival remains to be determined, but Reich says their later-than-expected movement into Europe might help explain the complex mix of languages that exists there today…

    ..Anatole Klyosov is a friend of yours? That is positively awesome. The y-DNA R1a1a matter still seems to be shrouded in mystery to a large extent. There is a basic split between Northern Europe and Asia which has become apparent. Here is a blog post from the Polish Genetics and Anthropology Blog run by one of our very own forum members which summarizes the findings. A major division within R1a1a emerges: Southern Europe and Asia vs. Northern Europe –

    As mentioned on this blog recently, there’s a lot of action on different fronts to try and decipher the story of R1a1a. Many new SNPs are being discovered, and one of the most fascinating found to date is Z93. This marker appears to be a signal of a major split within R1a1a, with most samples from north of the Alps and Carpathians coming back Z93-. These include Brits, Germans, Poles, Finns, Scandinavians and Russians. The Z93+ crowd features Italians, Spaniards, Indians, Pakistanis, Ashkenazim Jews, Hungarians, Turks and Arabs. Eventually, I’ll put together a comprehensive post about all the newly discovered SNPs within R1a1a, and what they might mean. Till then, the link below might be of use to all those interested in how things are going.

    Thus far, all the South-Asian participants of the Family Tree DNA R1a1a and Subclades Y-DNA Project have tested positive for the Z93 SNP, which, as mentioned, seems to be the defining SNP which separates Northern European and Asiatic R1a1a indviduals. From the R1a1a spreadsheet, I will list a few Indian individuals who have tested for the relevant SNPs in question;
    – An individual who lists his surname as Bajwa. The Bajwa are a Jatt clan from the Punjabi-speaking areas of Northwest India. This individual is listed as positive (+) for Z93.
    – An individual who is of a Nair background from Kerala, southern India. He is positive for both Z93 and L342.2+, which is downstream from Z93.
    -An individual who lists his surname as Kamath. Kamath is a very common surname among the Saraswat Brahmins of the Konkan coast of India. He is positive for L342.2. Given that this is downstream from Z93, it is likely he is also Z93+.
    – A Bihari Brahmin individual who lists his last name as Dikshit. As in the last two individuals, he has not tested for Z93 but is L342.2+ and L657+, both downstream from Z93.
    – An individual who lists his surname as Khokar. Khokar is a Punjabi-specific surname borne by a variety of clans of various ethnic groups in the Punjab region. While the individual doesn’t seem to have tested for Z93, he is L342.2+, thus he is likely to be Z93+ as well.

    I personally think it would be highly fallacious to form any conclusions based on such small sampling. More R1a1a South-Asians most certainly need to get themselves tested. But thus far, all the Indian individuals seem to be Z93+. I asked Polako, the forum enthusiast on everything R1a1a about all this, and this is what he had to say. However, going by the results thus far, I have no idea as to how we could possibly go about tracking the Indo-European migration to India and their patrilineal descendants (Brahmins, etc) if all South-Asian R1a1a individuals are indistinguishable from each other. This, to me, make absolutely no sense. I will refrain from concluding anything on the matter for now, though. The apparent lack of SNP differentiation between various South-Asian R1a1a individuals also doesn’t quite corroborate with the appreciable variation and differences in the autosomal DNA admixture proportions of the various castes and tribes of India.

    The T. Kivisild et al study is actually based on y-DNA and mtDNA Haplogroups, not autosomal DNA. The map which you posted is actually a multidimensional scaling plot of eight Indian and seven western Eurasian populations, using Fst distances calculated for 16 Y-Chromosomal SNP haplogroups. In terms of autosomal DNA however, the Punjabis cluster firmly within South-Asia, along with other more North-Westerly groups such as the Pathans, Sindhis and Kashmiris. Additionally, they tend to exhibit elevated amounts of West-Asian and Northeastern European admixture relative to other South Asian groups; which is quite typical of Northwest Indian and Pakistani groups.

    The Lambadis are a nomadic tribe affiliated with the Banjaras of Northwest India found in south and west India. The Castes and Tribes of South India (1909) by Edgar Thurston and K. Rangachari has an interesting introductory account on them;

    The Lambadis are also called Lambani, Brinjari or Banjari, Boipari, Sugali or Sukali. By some Sugali is said to be a corruption of supari (betel nut), because they formerly traded largely therein.”The Banjaras,” Mr. G. A. Grierson writes, “are the well- known tribe of carriers who are found all over Western and Southern India. One of their principal sub-castes is known under the name of Labhani, and this name (or some related one) is often applied to the whole tribe. The two names appear each under many variations, such as Banjari, Vanjarl, Brinjari, Labhani, Labani, Labana, Lambadi, and Lambani. The name Banjara and its congeners is probably derived from the Sanskrit Vanijyakarakas, a merchant, through the Prakrit Vanij-jaarao, a trader. The derivation of Labhani or Labani, etc., is obscure. It has been suggested that it means salt carrier from the Sanskrit lavanah, salt, because the tribe carried salt, but this explanation goes against several phonetic rules, and does not account for the forms of the word like LabhanI or LambanI. Banjari falls into two main dialects — that of the Panjab and Gujarat, and that of elsewhere (of which we may take the Labhani of Berar as the standard). All these different dialects are ultimately to be referred to the language of Western Rajputana (Rajasthan). The Labhani of Berar possesses the characteristics of an old form of speech, which has been preserved unchanged for some centuries. It may be said to be based partly on Marwari and partly on Northern Gujarati. It is noted by Mr. Grierson that the Banjari dialect of Southern India is mixed with the surrounding Dravidian languages.

    Oddly enough, the Lambadi of Andhra Pradesh according to the same Kivisild et al. (2005) study exhibited y-DNA R1b at 27%, which is quite atypical for Indians in general.

    Citation.

    http://www.hhmi.org/news/modern-europeans-descended-three-groups-ancestors

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/25479-Brahmin-caste-R-M17-affinities-with-Europeans-or-lack-thereof-(split)-mod?s=58e5b2b489abad795b20a2acde8a7a64

    http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml

    Related articles

  • Hanuman Vanaras Are Neanderthals Of India

    Recently I have been going through the Geological characteristic of Europe and its History.

     

    The essence is.

     

    1.Asia remained as reservoir of all races moving in to Europe.

     

    2.For reasons not very known’ Humans started pushing towards Europe, this is presumed to be due to a cataclysmic event like flood or long dry periods.

     

    3.Access to Europe was easy as the Russian plains were there to cross over effortlessly.

     

    4.The complex structure of European geological features made these groups entering into Europe to become small groups settling n pockets.

     

    The Basques settled in the North of Pyrenees, Celts in Wales,Ireland and north-west of Scotland,Lombard in Italy,

     

    In the Fourth Century AD, out of Asia came the Huns,predecessor of Germans),Tatars.

     

    Later came the Magyars, who are in Hungary,Bulgar in Bulgaria .

     

    Neanderthal Man.jpg
    Neanderthal Man.

     

     

    Then came the Turks.

    Hanuman.jpg
    Hanuman.

     

    All from Asia!

     

    Unsettling fact is that these groups seem to have displaced the existing groups in these areas!

     

    Who are they and where did they come from?

     

    I shall discuss this later and now proceed to Vanaras and Neanderthals.

     

    Though it is accepted fact that the migration started from Asia into Europe,there seems to be no evidence of Neanderthal type of man in India.

     

    The reason could have been a cataclysm like great fire or Flood.

     

    Europe  did not witness such a cataclysm.

     

    Hence the remains of such type of evidence has not been found as it might be deep down the water  or incinerated, the remains might be charred and

    need  detailed investigation.

     

    But, as I have been maintaining  my posts, there is this obsession to follow the History(?) of Europe through European sources, when these sources quote Asian/Indian resources for their first migration !

     

    The earliest Epic of Mankind, The Ramayana gives a clear description of the type of Species.

     

    Valimki states that when Rama decided to attack Ravana He gave a call through  Sugreeva.

     

    The Vanaras came from  all the places from Madhya Pradesh,South India, and from the place ‘where the Sun always shines or always sets”

     

    The last one is Polar regions.

     

    Valmiki also mentions that the Vanaras were dominant in South India, they were concentrated in Kishkinta, they had high foreheads and features (resembling the Vanaras), and they lived in caves.

     

    One can find these warren of Caves in the remains of Hampi which was earlier Kishkinta.

     

    Vanaras  meansVan( forest) and Naras, man like beings in Forests.

     

    In Mahabharata Lord Krishna says the Species to which Jambhavan belonged was near extinct( one must remember Jambhavan appears, along with Hanuman in both Ramayana and Mahabharata).

     

    The description of Jambhavan in the Ramayana resembles the Yeti.

     

    Some Indologists speak of these being s having lived in South India 5,00, 000 years ago!

     

    Neanderthals  could speak and reason out, though the later point is being disputed .

     

    One needs to analyse the Kishkinda Kanda of Ramayana.

     

    It seems to me that Hanuman and Vanaras belonged to the equivalent of what is known as Neanderthal in the west.

     

    Indian Neanderthal ( why can’t we call the species as Vanaras)  are the Vanaras and they populated the South India.

     

    When one looks at the records of the ancient History of Tamils, one would find references to species like this and one should not forget Lemuria!

     

    reference.

    http://www.mallstuffs.com/Blogs/BlogDetails.aspx?BlogId=273&BlogType=Spiritual&Topic=Neanderthal%20man%20and%20hominid%20species%20in%20Ramayana

     

    http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/science/sc-moff2.htm

     

    Image Credit.

    http://ourinfinitelyevolvinguniverse.blogspot.in/2012/07/hanuman-chalisa.html

     

    Lands and Peoples By Grolier Incorporated Volume 3 Europe pages 15, 18,19.

    Related articles

  • Neanderthals To Be Back ‘Surrogate Mother Needed’

    George Church, Pioneer of Genome Research has disclosed in an interview to Der Spiegel has disclosed that Neanderthal cloning is possible and a surrogate Mother is needed.

    Read the interview, which is interesting.

    Neanderthal Hunting.
    Neanderthal Hunting.

     

    ‘George Church, 58, is a pioneer in synthetic biology, a field whose aim is to create synthetic DNA and organisms in the laboratory. During the 1980s, the Harvard University professor of genetics helped initiate the Human Genome Project that created a map of the human genome. In addition to his current work in developing accelerated procedures for sequencing and synthesizing DNA, he has also been involved in the establishing of around two dozen biotech firms. In his new book, “Regenesis: How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves,” which he has also encoded as strands of DNA and distributed on small DNA chips, Church sketches out a story of a second, man-made Creation….

     

    SPIEGEL: Mr. Church, you predict that it will soon be possible to clone Neanderthals. What do you mean by “soon”? Will you witness the birth of a Neanderthal baby in your lifetime?

     

    Church: That depends on a hell of a lot of things, but I think so. The reason I would consider it a possibility is that a bunch of technologies are developing faster than ever before. In particular, reading and writing DNA is now about a million times faster than seven or eight years ago. Another technology that the de-extinction of a Neanderthal would require is human cloning. We can clone all kinds of mammals, so it’s very likely that we could clone a human. Why shouldn’t we be able to do so?

    SPIEGEL: Perhaps because it is banned?

    Church: That may be true in Germany, but it’s not banned all over the world. And laws can change, by the way.

    SPIEGEL: Would cloning a Neanderthal be a desirable thing to do?

    Church: Well, that’s another thing. I tend to decide on what is desirable based on societal consensus. My role is to determine what’s technologically feasible. All I can do is reduce the risk and increase the benefits.

    SPIEGEL: So let’s talk about possible benefits of a Neanderthal in this world.

    Church: Well, Neanderthals might think differently than we do. We know that they had a larger cranial size. They could even be more intelligent than us. When the time comes to deal with an epidemic or getting off the planet or whatever, it’s conceivable that their way of thinking could be beneficial.

    SPIEGEL: How do we have to imagine this: You raise Neanderthals in a lab, ask them to solve problems and thereby study how they think?

    Church: No, you would certainly have to create a cohort, so they would have some sense of identity. They could maybe even create a new neo-Neanderthal culture and become a political force.

    SPIEGEL: Wouldn’t it be ethically problematic to create a Neanderthal just for the sake of scientific curiosity?

    Church: Well, curiosity may be part of it, but it’s not the most important driving force. The main goal is to increase diversity. The one thing that is bad for society is low diversity. This is true for culture or evolution, for species and also for whole societies. If you become a monoculture, you are at great risk of perishing. Therefore the recreation of Neanderthals would be mainly a question of societal risk avoidance.

    SPIEGEL: Setting aside all ethical doubts, do you believe it is technically possible to reproduce the Neanderthal?

    Church: The first thing you have to do is to sequence the Neanderthal genome, and that has actually been done. The next step would be to chop this genome up into, say, 10,000 chunks and then synthesize these. Finally, you would introduce these chunks into a human stem cell. If we do that often enough, then we would generate a stem cell line that would get closer and closer to the corresponding sequence of the Neanderthal. We developed the semi-automated procedure required to do that in my lab. Finally, we assemble all the chunks in a human stem cell, which would enable you to finally create a Neanderthal clone.

    SPIEGEL: And the surrogates would be human, right? In your book you write that an “extremely adventurous female human” could serve as the surrogate mother.

    Church: Yes. However, the prerequisite would, of course, be that human cloning is acceptable to society.

    SPIEGEL: Could you also stop the procedure halfway through and build a 50-percent Neanderthal using this technology.

    Church: You could and you might. It could even be that you want just a few mutations from the Neanderthal genome. Suppose you were too realize: Wow, these five mutations might change the neuronal pathways, the skull size, a few key things. They could give us what we want in terms of neural diversity. I doubt that we are going to particularly care about their facial morphology, though (laughs).

    SPIEGEL: Might it one day be possible to descend even deeper into evolutionary history and recreate even older ancestors like Australopithecus or Homo erectus?

    Church: Well, you have got a shot at anything where you have the DNA. The limit for finding DNA fragments is probably around a million years.

    SPIEGEL: So we won’t be seeing the return of the caveman or dinosaurs?

    Church: Probably not. But even if you don’t have the DNA, you can still make something that looks like it. For example, if you wanted to make a dinosaur, you would first consider the ostrich, one of its closest living relatives. You would take an ostrich, which is a large bird, and you would ask: “What’s the difference between birds and dinosaurs? How did the birds lose their hands?” And you would try to identify the mutations and try to back engineer the dinosaur. I think this will be feasible.

    SPIEGEL: Is it also conceivable to create lifeforms that never existed before? What about, for example, rabbits with wings?

    Church: So that’s a further possibility. However, things have to be plausible from an engineering standpoint. There is a bunch of things in birds that make flying possible, not just the wings. They have very lightweight bones, feathers, strong breast muscles, and the list goes on.

    SPIEGEL: Flying rabbits and recreated dinosaurs are pure science fiction today. But on the microbe level, researchers are already creating synthetic life. New bacteria detect arsenic in drinking water. They create synthetic vaccines and diesel fuel. You call these organisms “novel machines”. How do they relate to the machines we know?

    Church: Well, all organisms are mechanical in the sense that they’re made up of moving parts that inter-digitate like gears. The only difference is that they are incredibly intricate. They are atomically precise machines.

    SPIEGEL: And what will these machines be used for?

    Church: Oh, life science will co-opt almost every other field of manufacturing. It’s not limited to agriculture and medicine. We can even use biology in ways that biology never has evolved to be used. DNA molecules for example could be used as three-dimensional scaffolding for inorganic materials, and this with atomic precision. You can design almost any structure you want with a computer, then you push a button — and there it is, built-in DNA.

    SPIEGEL: DNA as the building material of the future?

    Church: Exactly. And it’s amazing. Biology is good at making things that are really precise. Take trees for example. Trees are extremely complicated, at least on a molecular basis. However, they are so cheap, that we burn them or convert them into tables. Trees cost about $50 a ton. This means that you can make things that are nearly atomically precise for five cents a kilo.

    SPIEGEL: You are seriously proposing to build all kinds of machines — cars, computers or coffee machines — out of DNA?

    Church: I think it is very likely that this is possible. In fact, computers made of DNA will be better than the current computers, because they will have even smaller processors and be more energy efficient.

    SPIEGEL: Let’s go through a couple of different applications of synthetic biology. How long will it take, for example, until we can fill our tanks with fuel that has been produced using synthentic microbes?

    Church: The fact is that we already have organisms that can produce fuel compatible with current car engines. These organisms convert carbon dioxide and light into fuels by basically using photosynthesis.

    SPIEGEL: And they do so in an economically acceptable way?

     

    Church: If you consider $1.30 a gallon for fuel a good number, then yeah. And the price will go down. Most of these systems are at least a factor of five away from theoretical limits, maybe even a factor of 10.

     

    SPIEGEL: So we should urgently include synthetic life in our road map for the future energy supply in Germany?

    Church: Well, I don’t necessarily think it’s a mistake to go slowly. It is not like Germany is losing out to lots of other nations right now, but there should be some sort of engineering and policy planning.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/george-church-explains-how-dna-will-be-construction-material-of-the-future-a-877634.html